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HTF REVIEW: "Beauty and the Beast" (Highly Recommended) (with screenshots) (1 Viewer)

Javier_Huerta

Supporting Actor
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Mar 9, 2002
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619
This has to be the best animated movie I've ever seen. I've waited for this one for far too long to come out on DVD... I'm anxious to get my hands on it.

I'm surprised nobody has said anything about the story, the characters, etc. This is an animated movie that puts to shame many live-action movies in terms of character development.

I can't wait. No, I can't wait. And I won't buy the R4 release of the disc - I'm sure Disney will find a way to ruin it, just as it did with Monsters, Inc.
 

LarryE

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jan 22, 2002
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62
I purchased my first DVD player in march of 1998,(along with a Runco CRT projector, and 8 ft screen) with this very movie in mind. I am so excited to get to watch it with my 1 y/o son and 4 y/o daughter. I believe that Disney's run from The Little Mermaid, to the Lion King will become known as the Golden Age of animation! Ron, you are the Man!
 

cafink

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Carl Fink
I'm glad to see this film get such a great treatment on DVD. I haven't seen it since it was in theaters — I was only ten at the time — and I can't wait to revisit this title for the first time in over a decade.

I do have one concern, though, and I'm a bit surprised that more hasn't been made of it in this thread.

In preparing the film for its Imax release last year, much was made of the inclusion of the new "Human Again" musical number. What wasn't as highly publicized was all the other reworkings that the film underwent. Certain details and background animation, which would look fine on a standard-size theater screen but not so great when blown up to such large proportions were "fixed up" so they'd look better on Imax's giant screen.

Now, with three separate versions of this film included on a single DVD, the question is:

Is the original theatrical version REALLY the ORIGINAL theatrical version? Or is it, as some have feared, simply the new reworked "special edition" minus the "Human Again" segment.

In spite of a rather short running time, it seems all but impossible that Disney would include three versions on the disc, encoding each one separately. I would imagine that some branching technique would be used, which doesn't bode well.

On the other hand, has Disney EVER used branching to present multiple cuts of a film on disc?

Crossing my fingers…
 

Jeff Adkins

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In the beginning, they hesitated to enter the
market, and when they did, their releases were
not on par with other studios.
In fact, at one point, they pulled their plans
to release a laserdisc boxed set simply because
the public wasn't buying another one of their
boxed sets. I think the title in question was
Mickey Mouse The Early Years.
By the end of the laserdisc years, however, Disney
seemed to be at the top of their game -- which is
also the case this year with that studio and DVD.
Actually, those great Disney laserdiscs were all because of Image Entertainment. Disney handled their own distribution up until about 1990 or 1991 when Image took over. The first two titles handled by Image were Dick Tracy and Pretty Woman. Once, Image got control of the distribution they went out of their way to do great special editions. I was at Image's Chatsworth offices in September of 1992 when they were working on the supplements for 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea, so I know at least some (if not all) of the work was being done by Image. The mouse still had final say on what could be released, but Image deserves the credit for those Archive Collections like Tron and Mary Poppins. Image still could never convince them to do 101 Dalmatians, or did it finally come out right before LD's death? There was some weird reason why they wouldn't allow it on LD.
As for them being the enemy of LD, that's almost right. I remember attending my first VSDA convention in 1989 and Disney made it very clear that Laserdisc was nothing more than a nuisance to them. They had a polite way of saying "just be happy we're releasing laserdiscs at all."
Jeff
 

Jeff Adkins

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On the other hand, has Disney EVER used branching to present multiple cuts of a film on disc?
Disney was one of the first to use seamless branching on DVD. Take any of their early titles and select the French language track and you will see the French credits instead of English using seamless branching.
Polygram's Kalifornia was another very early title to use seamless branching to present both the Unrated and R-rated versions on the one side of a DVD-10.
Jeff
 

cafink

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Disney was one of the first to use seamless branching on DVD. Take any of their early titles and select the French language track and you will see the French credits instead of English using seamless branching.
No, they use alternate angles, not seamless branching, to present alternate titles.
 

Robert Cook

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Sep 29, 1999
Messages
64
Javier_Huerta wrote:
Jeff Adkins said:
That's not seamless branching--it's the multi-angle feature. You can see this in action if your DVD player's display shows the number of the angle you're playing, like some do. The idea is similar in some ways, but they're not the same feature.
 

derek

Second Unit
Joined
Dec 20, 1998
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494
According to the DVDfile review seemless branching isn't used.
http://www.dvdfile.com/software/revi...east_1991.html
"this disc cannot not fully exploit the seamless branching capabilities of the format; instead, each version of the film is encoded in its entirety as a separate "title" save for some minimal branching cues. Thus, over four hours of material is squeezed onto a single dual-layer disc, plus extras, two audio tracks each, and a commentary."
 

Chad Gregory

Supporting Actor
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Oct 11, 2000
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The concerns are marketing something with Middle East connections.

I also find it absurd, but that's why it was pushed back. I guess Disney feels that it would be a hard sell for those people looking to bomb the entire region....

Releasing The Lion King, Bambi, and Cinderella is "safer" I guess.
Brandon,

Sorry to inform you, but that is just a ridiculous rumor.

There is only one possible reason. That is the Lion King is a bigger seller and has garnered more requests for release. At no point in time was a firm schedule set for the Platinum releases. All release lists are essentially speculation.

-Chad
 

John Berggren

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Jun 17, 1999
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3,237
These marketting concerns over Alladin do not exist. The decision was made to go with The Lion King before 9/11/2001.
 

Mark_vdH

Screenwriter
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"this disc cannot not fully exploit the seamless branching capabilities of the format; instead, each version of the film is encoded in its entirety as a separate "title" save for some minimal branching cues.
But how would one explain the fact that all three versions have a/the layer change at the same point? This would certainly indicate branching.
Also, for the Work-in-Progress version, it seems that the alternate angle feature is utilized. When playing the WiP version, the angle is set at 2/2 - no French credits on an alternate angle BTW - and audio tracks are manually switchable
EDIT: a "separate title" doesn't necessarily indicate separate encoding - at least I think. I don't even know if a seamlessly (sp?) branched film can have both versions on the same title....
 

Brandon Conway

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Well, rumor or not, it doesn't matter one bit to me. Any of these films are ones I would buy. I'm just going by what I consider a very reliable source (Ernest Rister, animation expert who essentially breathes Disney info). I was just passing along the info.
 

Jeff Adkins

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No, they use alternate angles, not seamless branching, to present alternate titles.
My mistake! I remember that too because certain Pioneer models couldn't differentiate between the different types of alternate angles. Some models would have the angle icon appear on the screen on many Buena Vista titles.

Jeff
 

DaViD Boulet

Senior HTF Member
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DVD file is making an assumption based on the way the title information is stored on the DVD.

I have very good reason to belive that branching is used on this disc...and the layer change (being the same for all 3 versions) testifies to this.

-dave

p.s. i'm still looking forward to viewing this on a large screen to see if there area any visible compression artifacts. Ron's review talks a lot about the glories of the transfer, of which I have no doubt. I'm really more interested to see if there is any visible mosquito noise around any hard-lines in the animation where it might distract on a large-screen system.

-dave
 

Luis M

Second Unit
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Jul 2, 2000
Messages
282
I am also one of the few who likes Aladdin more than The Lion King.I feel there's more magic to it. I was dissapointed with this release change.
 

Robert Cook

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Sep 29, 1999
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64
Mark_vdH wrote:
a seamlessly (sp?) branched film can have both versions on the same title....
It depends on what you mean by "title." For example, on the DVD itself, one "title" generally contains all of the seamlessly (yes, that's how it's spelled) branched scenes, while the apparently separate "titles" that you can see and select on your DVD player are a different thing altogether. Therefore, you cannot tell definitively whether a DVD utilizes seamless branching, by using a DVD player alone. To be sure, you'd have to analyze the structure of the data on the disc, and the "program chains" which implement the "titles" which viewers can see.
I want to make sure that I'm organized and focused while analyzing the DVD next week, so let's make a list of issues to be resolved, and questions to be answered. Here's the current list of what I'm going to do:
1) Determine whether the three versions of the movie are fully and accurately implemented, by watching them. This might take some time to do completely, but I'll initially give them a once-over to find anything that is obviously wrong, based on my knowledge of the specific differences, and my asylum-worthy familiarity with the Original Theatrical version.
2) Do the same for the soundtracks. I list this separately to emphasize that there are differences which go beyond the remix, and because most people usually forget.
3) Determine how each version is implemented on the disc, which encompasses issues such as the seamless branching and multi-angle features of the DVD format, if they're used at all.
4) Obtain precise statistical data, such as average audio and video bandwidths, for each version of the movie.
5) Scrutinize the encoding, making note of compression artifacts, the proper flagging of fields, and whether there's anything unusual about the GOP patterns (I'll explain what this means if I see anything weird).
6) Scrutinize the transfer for signs of pre-processing or the lack thereof, and compare raw frames to those of previous direct-digital transfers from Disney.
Did I forget anything, or are there any requests?
 

Michael St. Clair

Senior HTF Member
Joined
May 3, 1999
Messages
6,001
Even by sharing just the soundtracks, the disc space saved would be on the order of 500 megabytes (for both), depending on the exact bandwidths of the soundtracks.
That is true, but you still lose peak video bitrate. Using VOB interleaving with 2 angles does NOT give you double the peak bitrate for the two combined; it gives you about 70% to 80% more. This would only be partially offset by the soundtrack savings.
 

Carlo_M

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Joined
Oct 31, 1997
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13,385
I was on the fence about this, consider me off of it!

This is now a street date purchase, and I can already hear my girlfriend's sigh of relief and excitement. October 8 is going to be a great DVD day for us! (This, Grave of the Firelies, Honey I Shrunk the Kids (guilty pleasure), Saturday Night Fever) I can hear the ol' pocketbook crying!
 

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