Blu-ray Review HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition (1 Viewer)

[TravisR]

It's too late for that. People have labeled it as having DNR and the title will never be able to shake that. It's like McCarthy calling someone a Communist in the 1950's, the accusation alone left you branded.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

In the Insiders section right here on HTF, there's a very interesting thread about this title, and Van Ling (the producer of the BD) has been a very active participant.

 

[Mike Frezon]

I guess now I'd be interested in hearing from anyone with a first-gen player who has been able to play this disc without problems.

I think you mean Bill Hunt of Digital Bits in your other post about the DNR issue. Carlo had posted a link about a half-dozen posts earlier.

 

[Paul Arnette]

Well, it is hard not to look at the 'bits 'retraction' as backpedaling and damage control on the behalf of a studio that potentially swatted their hand as a result of their original comments when you're as cynical as I am.

All I can say is if I can see more fine detail in some compressed .jpg files in the Japanese release vs. the Skynet edition on DVD Beaver, chances are good I'm going to see them on my monitor too.

 

[eunderwood1121]

I've got a Sony BDP-350 and ran into a problem loading the Profile 2.0 content too. I updated the firmware last night and it didn't fix the problem. The movie plays fine, but running into that error everytime is going to get old!

 

[Brandon Conway]

The Sony BDPS350 can be upgraded directly over an ethernet cable connection.

 

[Gary Seven]

I spun this disc last night using a PS3 (with current F/W) and a 60" Sony XBR2. I used the THX optimiser to adjust picture and contrast. My player is set up NOT to automatically go to the net however, after the menu came up I did access the Skynet feature and it took a couple of minutes before a new menu came up. I cancelled out and explored the main menu a bit and had no trouble navigating. I have a B&K series 2 AVR507 which does not support the latest lossless codecs so it downcoonverts the new DTS soundtrack.

I'll start with the sound. In one word.... loud. The logos (DTS, etc) are especially loud. Nice to see the THX logo presentation as it brings back memories of the T2 LDs (which I still have). The soundtrack is really enveloping and I can only imagine that the lossless playback must be truly amazing... if you have the support for such codecs, is reason enough to get this disc.

With all the talk here about video, I paid close attention to this for the first 20 minutes (before I got absorbed into the movie). This is my first time seeing this movie in Hi Def and it was a real treat for me. I was trying to ascertain any DNR, paying particular attention to skin tones, but didn't really see anything that struck me as plastic looking or artificial. When Arnold walks into bar at the beginning, variance in skin tones can be seen as well as the hair on Arnold's chest, which was kind of blondish. I always thought his chest was clean shaven. This level of detail I have never see before on previous home video releases.

As I stated before earlier in the thread, the image is a tad soft compared to other discs I have seen but that can be attributed to many variables. Overall the image is still quite sharp. Blacks are solid and color is nicely saturated. All in all I have no problem with this disc.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

If you have the latest firmware, you will also need to install a USB memory stick in the slot in the back of the player, since the BDP-S350 does not have any built-in flash memory.

I own the BDP-S350, and added a 2GB stick for under $10 which works fine. However, I almost never bother to download BD-Live content anymore, since I have yet to find any of it worthwhile. I left the network connection in place only to download firmware updates.

 

[eunderwood1121]

I've got a 2GB stick also. Seems to be something preventing the disc from finding the network connection. All my other BD-Live discs work fine.

 

[Kevin EK]

Thanks for the tip, Josh.

I have reviewed the T2 thread in Van Ling's area, and I'm satisfied that the DNR issue has been blown out of proportion, mostly by well-meaning people who have misinterpreted what they were seeing. Van Ling repeatedly states in his thread that he didn't request ANY DNR AT ALL, and that the only additional work done here was to manually remove scratches, hairs and print damage where possible.

Van Ling also clarifies that the source transfer for this Blu-ray is the same one they've been using since the 2003 Extreme Edition DVD - and that this transfer has been the source of all SD and Blu-ray releases since that time. To make a new HD source transfer will require the involvement of James Cameron, who is still working on Avatar and hasn't even had the time to look over the HD transfer done for The Abyss three years ago. Van Ling also confirms that this edition was intended as a kind of "maintenance release" to coincide with the release of the latest movie.

He also admits that on every release of this title, he has been criticized from all sides - too much grain, too little grain, too bright, too dark, etc. And even after he plainly discusses the process of making this Blu-ray, he still gets criticized in that thread, with people apparently trying to correct his perception of a transfer he knows better than we do! (He makes a good point about people posting screengrabs - JPEGs are not necessarily accurate representations of the real quality of the moving images they represent.)

I have accordingly revised my review to include his input, so that people just looking into this discussion now may be able to see a more balanced perspective.

I still think we haven't seen the last of this title yet. I'd be willing to wager that 2011 will see a 20th anniversary re-issue with a brand new source transfer approved by Cameron, but I've been wrong before...

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Kevin, I'm sure you're absolutely right about there being a future T2 re-release on Blu-ray. I seem to recall Van Ling (perhaps in a different thread than the one you just ready) mentioning that they had at least brought up the idea. It seems the biggest complication with T2 or any other Cameron title is that somewhere along the line, he was granted the right to approve whatever transfer was made for home video releases, which in general is a good thing... except that Cameron has been obsessively working on Avator since about 1976 and it's not going to be done until about 2149, so he's been unavailable to supervise and/or approve new transfers.

(Apparently Fox did an HD transfer of "The Abyss" three years ago, and that's still sitting around waiting for Cameron to look at it...by the time he does, the technology will have advanced enough that it'll be time for a new master...)

I haven't seen the disc firsthand yet, but this still seems like a solid release at a reasonable price. Since they were pretty much handcuffed in not being allowed to make a new transfer, and not given the time or budget to do much as far as completely new special features, it looks like the Skynet edition does a great job of presenting most of everything that's already out there at a higher quality than was previously available.

Perhaps more exciting (to me, at least) is the news that Lowry Digital recently did some work on the original Terminator film -- Van's got no idea when they're going to be able to start working on that Blu-ray, but that's one I'll be pretty excited about.

 

[Joe Karlosi]

I'm not sure I understand... you say you WERE able to play the movie with the firmware update? What do you mean about "running into that error every time", though?

 

[Joe Karlosi]

Oh, forget this.

I'm going to go back to Best Buy and demand a refund. I'm not going to jump through various hoops and mazes to get a friggin' movie to play. I'll wind up just buying the old BD of TERMINATOR 2 and sticking with that (even though I wanted the Extended Version). Or maybe I'll just stick with my old standard DVD in the silver case that has THREE versions of the movie.

 

[Mike Frezon]

And that's why Jacob's comments about first gen players has made me nervous about this title now. Who needs the headaches?

 

[Joe Karlosi]

But surely my player is not first generation? I waited until November 2008 to buy one. Granted, it might have been older, but I doubt THAT old. Up until this new T2 release my Sony has played everything - including other "difficult" titles like the reported Fox headaches.

 

[CraigF]

^ Joe: I would do the firmware update, there was one in late April. I used to have an S350, it is pretty easy to do over the internet. You will likely need it for another BD soon anyway. Sony is generally good in that they have the firmware updates *before* the BDs needing them are released. Unlike some others... Firmware updates seem to be a fact of life for all BD players, I guess as studios more fully exploit what BDLive etc. is capable of.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Nope. Yours isn't. But mine is. And if it's giving newer players problems...I'm wary that it might be even worse for the older players--if it's asking too much of them. Hopefully somebody out there with a first gen player will be a guinea pig and report in sometime.

 

[TravisR]

If it was a bigger studio, I'd say that was a possibility but what is Lion's Gate going to do? Not send them review discs of Saw VI or the next re-release of T2?

 

[Paul Arnette]

To the 'bits credit they have certainly gone the extra mile in trying to decipher all the possible reasons for all the fine image detail variation for the already innumerable BD releases of T2. To sum up the latest hypothesis, the differences between the fine image detail level in the Skynet and Geneon editions appears to be a function of bitrate and possibly encoding with the Geneon, and presumably the Optimum as well, coming out on top over the Skynet and certainly the original Lionsgate T2 release in terms of fine image detail. Their suposition also suggests that the Skynet edition's bitrate suffered at the hands of BD-Java overlays and seamless branching, which the Geneon disc does not have.

At the end of the day, I think the Skynet edition is a modest upgrade over the original Lionsgate edition and suitable for the majority of BD buyers that want to purchase the film, while the most 'hardcore' amongst the T2 fans are going to want to seek out the now OOP UK Optimum or Japan Geneon releases for their superior PQ.

 

[Dave H]

Anyone know the bitrate on the original UK version?