Blu-ray Review HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Spartacus 50th Anniversary Edition (1 Viewer)

[Mike Frezon]

Originally Posted by Eric Scott Richard /forum/thread/301104/htf-blu-ray-review-spartacus-50th-anniversary-edition/60#post_3704991

 

[Steve Christou]

Originally Posted by Mike Frezon /forum/thread/301104/htf-blu-ray-review-spartacus-50th-anniversary-edition/60#post_3705024

 

[marsnkc]

Originally Posted by Mike Frezon

On this point, Mike, I've said elsewhere that, even in the age of high definition, I still purchase VHS, some even used, on eBay, if that's the only platform it's available on. We all know that this is not the case with Spartacus. It's an important enough film to have been issued, as I've said before, on every home video platform, in many editions, and it surely must have made money, otherwise why produce them? And why would a Criterion, with its high standards, bother to produce a reasonable (considering the source) DVD 2-disc package? This is one 'work of art' that everyone has had access to since the beginning of home theater. Taking the time and properly resourcing a proper BD of Spartacus would simply have been the right thing to do, after the debacle of the HD-DVD and for what it and its creators deserve. I'm happy for those 'independent' enough to 'make up their own minds' but I made mine up not to purchase yet another turkey based on having owned this particular gem on - to repeat myself - VHS, Laserdisc, Universal and Criterion DVDs and HD-DVD. By the way, those earlier platforms were several times more expensive than the highd definition marvel we have today, so I've paid my dues to Universal and feel it's time to have a transfer comparable to those achieved by the likes of the early Bonds, thank you very much!


PS: If it wasn't for the 'experts' we'd still be happily watching VHS today. I remember inviting an acquaintance over to see the first VHS edtion of Superman on a 25" screen. His opinion was that 'it was as good as it gets - very 'cinemalike'. I said nothing, and it wasn't until we got to high definition that I thought it was 'as good as it gets'. Experience makes a difference. When I first got into high def I really couldn't discern much difference between a well-produced, up-converted DVD and Blu-ray. Many reference quality BDs later and I have a hard time not wishing that the DVD I'm watching (depending on the movie - it doesn't bother me if the Three Stooges isn't in high def) wasn't BD.

 

[Michael Reuben]

Originally Posted by Mike Frezon sound like a "pan"?

Paramount has given us a transfer that is clean, shows lots of detail and, to that extent, may please a number of viewers, especially on smaller screens. And since the film itself is so absorbing, it’s possible (at least at the size at which I was watching) to look past the image and simply lose oneself in the story and the performances, which are so good that they don’t get old even after innumerable viewings. But one can’t escape the reality that this is a flattened, heavily processed, electronic image. There is never any of the sense of the depth and texture that we know Blu-ray is capable of reproducing from black-and-white films from the 1940s and which must have been there at some point to have produced the amount of detail that survives in the image on this disc.

The main reason I don't give numbers or stars for video and audio is because I prefer nuanced discussion to reductionist scores. It kind of defeats the purpose when one of my colleagues drops out the nuance and substitutes a single word like "pan", "rave", etc. With IaWL, I didn't recommend or not recommend the disc. I did suggest that, if someone was happy with their DVD, they needn't rush to upgrade.

 

[smithb]

.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Michael: I chose my words poorly in my haste. I apologize.

Obviously, I simply meant to describe your concerns about the video image--as presented on the Blu-ray of It's a Wonderful Life--not being all that it could be in the realm of high-definition. I suppose, while not an endorsement it certainly doesn't amount to a "pan."

 

[tezza2010]

http://www.thehalelawfirm.com

 

[marsnkc]

Originally Posted by Steve Christou

Making up your own mind is admirable, and a willingness to purchase a product that doesn't live up to the promise of high definition is your prerogative. You have every right to spend your hard earned money any way you wish, and Universal will be happy to take it from you. After all, bottom line bonuses don't grow on trees! As to your respect of others' opinions, your response to an earlier post by Edwin_S doesn't bear this out, no matter how often he reiterates his opinion which is contrary to your own.

 

[Steve Christou]

You are a snob Andrew, a species of film fan I have very little regard for. Looking at your posts it doesn't look like you've actually seen this particular disc but have been mouthing off about it, at great length, for weeks now. The difference is I have seen it and it's no where as bad as it's made out to be, it isn't perfect and it may never look 'perfect' on any future re-release either, not perfect enough to satisfy you chaps anyway. So I can happily watch and enjoy this so-called 'unwatchable' version of Spartacus while you wait indefinitely for the 'right' version to pop up.

 

[dpippel]

You use the word "snob" partnered with "film fan" as if that's a BAD thing Steve. I'll tell you something, if it wasn't for the "film snobs" both within the industry and lurking out here in the buying public, you'd still be getting nothing but panned and scanned dreck on VHS for your home theater. While everyone is obviously entitled to their own opinion and empowered to spend their money as they wish, it really pains me to see so many people criticizing others here for wanting the best quality possible and calling a spade a spade. The problems with Spartacus are a fact. Whether or not you choose to live with those flaws is your prerogative, but I think it would be great if people on both sides of this fence stopped criticizing each other for differing opinions. Just my opinion.


As for me I too HAVE seen the Blu-ray and I think that Robert Harris was right on the money. It's pretty ugly on my 57" screen. At times I thought I was watching "A Scanner Darkly", so I choose to vote with my wallet and stick with my Criterion DVD for now.

 

[marsnkc]

Originally Posted by Steve Christou /forum/thread/301104/htf-blu-ray-review-spartacus-50th-anniversary-edition/30#post_3703688




Olivier looks more like his representation at Madame Tussauds than a real person in that shot.

Another response to your captures. There's no excuse any more for this, and it's not snobbery to expect better. I like Olivier's face the way it is/was (flattering and all, as I've said, that this cartoon-like DNR job might be to him).

 

[Vincent_P]

I was responding to this comment by Steve Christou:


"Yes it has DNR, but I'll take a spot of DNR over watching the film through a grainstorm anyday..."


He says nothing about "digital noise", he specifically says "a grainstorm", which has nothing to do with a large-format production like SPARTACUS which will have very little grain if properly scanned (which i mad abundantly clear in my posts here if you bothered to read them) ...


Which part of this don't YOU understand?


I'm kind of amazed you're attacking me here since from reading your posts it seemed we were on the same page regarding this lame excuse for a Blu-ray.


Vincent

Originally Posted by marsnkc

A response to yours that DNR is preferable to a snowstorm of digital noise. Which part of this don't you understand?

 

[Mike Frezon]

Originally Posted by marsnkc


(I love it when all the usual suspects pipe up again after reading Mike Frezon's post, unexpected from a moderator on a home theater forum. It seems I was wrong in assuming this forum was about universally accepted standards with the aim of helping people attain those standards. And these days, thanks to Blu-ray (when properly utilized) and HDTVs, it doesn't take a fortune to enjoy those standards).

Andrew:


My post was "unexpected?" (If, after reading this post, you feel I am not well-representing the hobby, I invite you to PM me.)


You seem to indicate that my post somehow violates the mission statement of the HTF. Read it again. I said I was NOT defending the transfer of Spartacus on BD, In fact, I said I'm sure you and the other critics have a valid point.


The express point of my post was to say there's no reason to create a caste system among HTF members by dividing them into those who care about quality and "Walmart bargain-bin hunters."

I also found a flaw in your reasoning that an HTF member should not embrace the Spartacus BD simply because of what some "expert" says on the matter. People simply need to decide on their own. They are more than welcome to be guided and/or influenced by others whose opinion they value...but to say that HTF members should close their own mind because "experts" have rendered a judgment strikes me as wrong.


You've made your point that you are more than happy to accept what others have said about this transfer (even though you haven't seen it with your own eyes) and based on what you've seen in screen captures. That's fine. Others disagree. And you need to respect that just as they need to respect your decision/opinion.


You keep repeating that you can't understand why people are willing to take a stand contrary to your own. You don't need to understand it, but just accept it. It's the sort of thing that keeps the world spinning on its axis.

And for everyone taking part in this thread:


As Doug Pippel stated above:

I think it would be great if people on both sides of this fence stopped criticizing each other for differing opinions.

To that I will say, amen and hope that this discussion can move forward in a positive way.

 

[Edwin-S]

Originally Posted by Steve Christou

I'm not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that I posted the same paragraph three times. I looked at my other posts in this thread and they don't seem like a repitition to me. I never meant to suggest that studios want to release garbage if they can get away with it. Obviously I didn't explain myself well. Studios are primarily in the business to make money. If people are willing to buy and accept problematic transfers from substandard masters then it only stands to reason that studios, whose primary function is increased profits, will more than likely use old masters, because they are cheaper than producing new ones. If a studio can cut its costs and increase its profit on every unit sold then it is likely to do so, especially if people are willing to settle for mediocre quality. In that scenario, the studios, in their logic, are not releasing "garbage".


I'm also not going to claim that I'm completely immune to buying a film that may be less than pristine. I read about the problems with the BD release of "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly", but I went ahead and bought the box set because I wanted the "Dollar" films. I have watched all three and I was quite disappointed in the quality of TG,TB&TU. It was simply the worst picture quality of all three films. It was only marginally better than the DVD; however, if I wanted the "Dollar" films then I had to settle for a mediocre quality BD of TG, TB&TU.

 

[Steve Christou]

Can't we all just... get along?


Sorry Edwin, I saw similar sounding posts a couple of times in other threads and thought they might have been from you. I'm getting old you see and um... [/url]

 

[Steve Christou]

Originally Posted by Mike Frezon /forum/thread/301104/htf-blu-ray-review-spartacus-50th-anniversary-edition/90#post_3705500

 

[TravisR]

Originally Posted by marsnkc
A response to your strange logic that if the studios see nothing wrong with the transfer, then nothing is. Whew!

I'm not sure what you mean by that but I think you misunderstood my post since we agree on the same basic point of DNR being a bad thing. My point was that the people who are bothered by the application of DNR on Spartacus may reperesent a large segment of buyers for this title (unlike a current movie where the home theater afficiando is a drop in the sales bucket). So if people that are bothered by the DNR choose not to buy Spartacus, they might actually make an appreciable difference in the sales of the disc. Lower sales is probably the most effective way to make Universal see the error of applying too much DNR.

 

[Ruz-El]

Originally Posted by Steve Christou

Is a version with this framing available?

 

[AaronMK]

Lower sales is probably the most effective way to make Universal see the error of applying too much DNR.

Just curious, should they be applying any DNR? I really do not know the answer to that. I remember back in the single layer DVD days, it was sometimes actually a real balancing act between compression artifacts and softness. On blu-ray, I have seen many titles that maintain the film grain without visible artifacts, even long and visually complex titles like Saving Private Ryan.

 

[dvdirv]

Anyone know why Universal replaced the "Intermission" titles? The replacement on this disc is on a blue background which were not the original titles.