HT curtain (again) (1 Viewer)

[Deane Johnson]

Yes, David's does look fine, indeed. A couple of things to note. It's not the usual pinch pleated type valance which would be the type I should think might look funny. His appears, so near as I can tell from the picture, to be hung on one of those 4 1/2 inch flat type continental rods. That's just a guess from looking at the picture with a magnifying glass. One of the reasons it looks good is that it's against the ceiling. If it were on a window with wall above it, it would be too skinny looking. In those cases you need to think 12" minimum, but that's moot since you're not putting it on a window.
If I am correct, it's a rod pocket type valance slid onto the rod and stretched flat. You could achieve the same thing if you wanted by wrapping a 1x6 (or 1x4 if appropriate) flat board with the fabric, stapling it at the back and putting it up with L brackets. You would need a little padding under the fabric for a rich look. Use batting material from a fabric store.
There is no right or wrong way to do these things. Just what looks good when it's finished. We use the board approach whenever we can due to it being solid and manageable. We probably install four to six valances of various types every week that are mounted on a board. Of course we also install some that are stretched on a rod. It just depends on what works best in a specific location and style.
Let me know if I can help. And we'll be looking forward to hearing about your experiences with the Worthington motor. Fortunately, it's low enough in cost you can't get hurt too badly.
Deane

 

[Mike Brantley]

The project has begun. As mentioned, the Worthington motor is on the way. Meanwhile, I bought and installed the main drapery rod and also the (continental?) rod right up next to the ceiling -- to duplicate the valance used by David R. in the link referenced above. I even got the gold tieback tassles to use as he has done for a decorative element up high.
But I am having severe sticker shock at the price of velvet in my local fabric store. While it looks exquisite and very theatrical (especially in your setup), it's also between $18.99 and $22.99 a yard here! Deane, what do you think of a fabric called Empress Velveteen? It's only $10.99 a yard at the store, and it looks very similar to the more expensive velvet but is thinner. Thinner would probably help my stacking space shortage. Have you ever worked with this fabric, and is it a good choice for screen drapes? As you suggest, they will not be lined, as light-blocking qualities are unimportant to the task at hand.
Also, about how much will I need? The entire width of the screen and the stacking space combined is eight feet, with a drop of about 64 inches to get past the bottom of the screen yet not interfere with the stuff I have below. The fabric looks like it comes on a 48-inch roll, and the store had 12 yards left on the roll in stock. You think I should get it all, or will that be enough? Gotta have some left over for the valance, but it's not gonna be very big, as we discussed.
Deane, you are amazing to be so helpful -- especially since this is what you do for money and nobody is paying you! Your advice is appreciated. I'm sure you're helping some lurkers as well as Gary and me. I'm a longtime lurker myself!

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Mike Brantley
Our Theater:
Mike & Cheryl's Screening Room

My Super-8 Filmmaking Site:
http://www.super8filmmaking.com

 

[Deane Johnson]

Mike:
Empress Velveteen is not something we use in curtains and draperies so we don't have experience with it. It is something that is used in clothing and is much lighter and thinner than velvet as you pointed out. It's impossible for me to predict how it would look. It might not hang well, it might be fine. My suspicion is that it would look wimpy and droopy and not in keeping with the quality of what you've already done.
Given that the velveteen would cost a little less than $100 and the real thing would cost a little less than $200, only you can determine what the appropriate budget would be for this segment of construction. That's a pretty darn good looking theater and if it were me, I'd be real careful about what I did with this very visible curtain.
Based on the demensions you have provided, you'd need a minimum of 7 yds for the curtain itself. That's at 1.5 times fullness. The valance would require about 2 more yds.
I can't tell from the picture the exact construction of your woodwork below the screen, but from what I can tell from the picture, if that stuff will move outward just a little, I'd sure seriously consider making the curtain long enough to get below the equipment shelf so that it at least appeared to go clear to the floor.
If the front wall is all black and you're considering a black curtain, then you have a little more visual flexibility.
Deane

 

[Mike Brantley]

Thanks, Deane. Maybe I can afford the velvet if all I need is nine or 10 yards for the project. Also, I have not done any comparison shopping, but since you don't seem surprised by the prices they must not be too out of whack. I wonder if it's feasible to buy fabric online.
I could pull the woodwork out from the wall, but I don't know if I want to. My thought is the curtains would move behind the center speaker, but not behind the woodwork that was made to butt up against the wall. The front wall behind the wood is black, and the drapes also will be black. So that affords me some flexibility here, as you suggest.
One reason for this is that my LCD projector puts out an 800x600 pixel picture, but only 640x480 of that pixel array is used for the video picture. (When I blow the video image up to fill the full 800x600, the scaling artifacts are terrible.) The area around the screen needs to be black to avoid throwing any of the extra light around the image back. The border around the projected picture is black, but you know LCD projectors don't really do black. More like dark gray.
Anyway, I won't be able to buy the fabric until I get back from Pasadena at the end of the month. That'll give me more time to think and to shop. I'm inviting the lady who will sew the curtains for me over for a movie soon, so she can see what the assignment is exactly. If the motor comes before I go, I'll install it since the rods already are up, then I'll at least know how loud it will be and how fast the drapes will move. Heck, I could start working on my remote control macro sequence.
Thanks again for your advice. I'll let you know my thoughts on the cheap motor. Once I get this project done, I will post a Quicktime movie of the drapes in motion on my Web page.
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Mike Brantley
Our Theater:
Mike & Cheryl's Screening Room

My Super-8 Filmmaking Site:
http://www.super8filmmaking.com

 

[Deane Johnson]

The yardage price on the velvet is about right. I have seen posts where individuals have used either 25% or 50% off coupons at Jo-Ann Fabrics to get it down to around $12 per yd. I don't anything about this other than what I read in the posts.
I don't know of any on-line places to buy fabric, perhaps because I've never looked. My guess is that on the amount you're looking at the savings would not be that great by the time you paid shipping. And there's something about touching and feeling before buying.
Deane

 

[Gary_R]

Sorry. I did not mean to close discussion on the curtain and to leave Mike out of the fray.
I'm back again, wondering of a one-way curtain would defeat the purpose, which, of course, contradicts my previous post. What do you think, Deane? If I stack my curtain on the left, where I have the space, and have only a one-way close-open, am I throwing money away on something that just will not work, aethetically or mechanically?

 

[Burke Strickland]

A one-way curtain would be a work-around for the "no room on one side" dilemna, and would still cover that big vacant white rectangle when not in use. But since theater curtains help "frame" the screen during the movie, you'd lose that visual benefit.
Also, I had a one-way-draw window curtain in my living room in a previous house, since one edge of the front window was virtually at the corner of the room and there was a large expanse of wall on the other side of it. Intellectually, I knew why the curtain was set up that way, but it never really "looked right" to me, even though that was the only was to have the curtain fully retractable from the window area. And I'm not usually a "slave to symmetry". :>)
In my current HT setup, I have been looking into curtains to cover my projection screen, and have followed this discussion with great interest. However, since I have large dipolar panel speakers, I really don't want soft fabric bunched up on the wall right behind them, so I've been thinking about using something with a harder material to hide the screen, such as Roman shades in three sections, two to "frame" 4:3 material and a center panel between them.
All three would be retracted for widescreen use. And all would be flat black, of course, to match the painted wall behind the screen. (Or maybe get real ambitious with five sections -- to allow different masked widths for 1:8.5 vs 1:2.35 as well as the 4:3... OK maybe its back to curtains.) :>)
Burke

 

[Deane Johnson]

Mechanically, it's been done for years with draperies on sliding glass patio doors. That shouldn't be a problem.
Aesthetically, it gets to be a matter of opinion. Certainly we think of stage curtains opening from the center. Given no curtain, or one way, I might choose one way. I'm not sure. It is, for sure, a matter of personal opinion and yours is as good as mine.
In doing one way, you still need to think about a couple of things. The 1/3 stacking rule still applies. Except that you have to accomodate everything on one side. Gary:
If your screen were 10' wide, you'd need a total width of 15' and a stack space of 5'. That gets to be a lot of goods to move. I am certain these small motors like the Worthington would give up and die. The Somfy might work OK. The BTX stuff would. But the costs go up accordingly. I'd figure on a budget for BTX in excess of $1200 just for the motorized rod. The Somfy is probably going to run between $300 and $400 plus a rod.
We mourn the loss of DrapeBoss, but it had it's limits and shortcomings also. It was a small motor and crapped out easily. They were also prone to burn out. What was neat about them was their programmable electronics. We never sold any to customers. Customers expect something to work forever. I wouldn't go below Somfy, BTX or Makita for a paying customer.
This motorized rod thing is a real problem, cost wise. We're fighting it all the time. We have to tell a customer tomorrow that a remote control motorized rod will run him about $1300. I'd feel better with a bodyguard along in these situations.
I should restate here that the biggest problem I have with the Makita is it's travel speed. It's 11" per second. BTX is about 6" per second. My own, powered by DrapeBoss for now, is 3" per second. 11" per second is just too fast in my opinion for a good dramatic effect. To me, it would sort of look like jerking some curtains open for a puppet show, not the slow, dramatic unveiling of the screen I rememeber when theaters were done right.
Frankly, I should think you might make a one way draw look OK if you used a little showmanship with it. Use a slow ramp on the light dimmers and start the curtain open and the lights down at the same time. Have them timed to hit bottom both at the same time. That should provide a good "wow" factor.
Any more questions, just ask. My advice is probably worth about what it costs.
Deane

 

[Deane Johnson]

Burke:
Your idea on vertical rise roman shades isn't bad. Motorizing them is a bit more challenging. The motorized headrails for such a project are available, but the cost once again gets silly.
I've been interested in developing a large roman shade approach such as was used in Cinemascope theaters in the 50's. They used it to give greater illusion of width to the 2.55:1 screens. I don't know if it worked for that purpose or not. I was thinking about all of the home theaters without side stacking room. Biggest problem with vertical rise romans is that they need stacking room at the top also. Probably a 12" to 18", just guessing. The other big problem is the motor drive system for such a large shade.
Deane

 

[Mike Brantley]

Gary, here's an idea to provid a little more balance and to frame your picture... Why not put a fixed panel on the 14-inch side, something that wouldn't move just to provide some fabric to frame the picture after your drape is open all the way to the other side?
Anyway, I got the motor today from Worthington Dist. The four-page owner's manual calls it a "Universal Window Covering Motor Butler Model 80 X-10 Compatible." I also picked up an X-10 appliance module at the Shack. (I went to Lowe's to get the module, since I had seen a small X-10 display there several months ago. It was gone, and every employee I asked had no clue what X-10 was.)
My first impression upon applying power to the motor while holding it in my hand was that this thing is very loud. It's not nearly as loud as my electric garage door opener, of course, but I'd say it's much louder than an electric razor. Maybe about as loud as an electric train, if you can imagine that.
But once I installed it and operated it from remote using X-10 from my seating position, the noise wasn't all that distracting. I'd definitely go with something quieter if there was an alternative in the sub-$120 price range. I'll keep watching the marketplace for future developments. Who knows? Maybe when the thing is operating with a covering of drapes in front of it I won't hear it so much.
Installation was straightforward, but you should read the directions before starting. I'm not certain the speed of travel, as I haven't yet measured it. I wouldn't want the drapes to move any faster than they will with this motor, but for me the speed is very acceptable. Slower movement would be even more dramatic and theatrical, but there is no adjustment for this.
It remains to be seen how this motor will perform under a real load. It doesn't take much to operate a drapery rod with no drapes! I have yet to buy fabric, and I won't get to that step until the end of the month. Then I will have to wait for the drapes and valance to be made.
I reduced the width of my painted 4:3 screen by a little, to 70 inches wide or about 88 inches diagonally. Since my first row of seating is only eight feet from the screen, this is still plenty big. Also, the new size raises the bottom of the screen by about four inches, which will solve a problem I had with the sight line from the back row when the front row is occupied. When I get around to it, I will raise my center speaker a little since the screen is higher on the wall, and I will install an infrared input underneath the center speaker. Right now, I just have one of those pyramid infrared receivers sitting on top of the left speaker, but I won't something more permanent and elegant.
When the project is finished, I will update the pics on my Web site.
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Mike Brantley
Our Theater:
Mike & Cheryl's Screening Room

My Super-8 Filmmaking Site:
http://www.super8filmmaking.com

 

[Deane Johnson]

Thanks for the update Mike. When you get a chance, it would be nice to learn what the travel speed is. I simply measured the total travel distance and used a stop watch, then did the division. Actually I used one of those Radio Shack digital timers made for the kitchen.
You might try mounting the motor with a small piece of mouse pad placed between it and the wall. This won't make the motor quieter, but it will cut down a little on the transfer of that noise to the wallboard so that it acts like a drum head. I've used this technicque under mounting brackets for the HunterDouglas motorized shades and it cuts the noise some on those.
Let us know how things go.
Deane

 

[Gary_R]

I've been away for a few days and just read your messages. Thanks for the ideas on a stationery right side curtain; I never considered them before although, now, I'll have another problem with the motor. I don't want to eat into my equipment budget or, er, my alleged equipment budget. I'm going to wait for now and see if another manufacturer emerges or another solution does; in any case, I'm not interested in spending a few hundred for a motor.
In the meantime, I'll be reading this thread.
--Gary

 

[Mike Brantley]

I finally got around to timing the cheap motor I got from Worthington. It's between 5 and 6 inches a second. I would be more precise, but it was hard to start the drape motor from my remote with one hand while attempting to start and stop my wristwatch stop watch with the other!
Also, as far as this thing being loud, it is. But I have created a custom home theater intro animation with sound that I have burned onto a VideoCD. I play that on my secondary (Apex) DVD player as the lights dim, and then I switch to the main feature DVD on my Sony player. When I'm done, the sound from that intro will probably mask the motor noise as the drapes open, the lights dim and the intro begins. Eventually, I won't all this activity to occur at the touch of a macro button.
Later...
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Mike Brantley
Our Theater:
Mike & Cheryl's Screening Room