Hsu VTF-3R vs SVS PB2-plus

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by EdD, Jul 9, 2003.

  1. EdD

    EdD Agent

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    I'm looking for a new sub. My budget is around $1000 with a max of around $1200. Must be box type and wood veneer a plus. The room is about 18x12 but there are a few large doorways and windows so effective square footage is probably a bit bigger. Hardwood floors with rug and some wall hangings to dampen echos. Usage is about 40/60 music/movies but music is more important to me than movies. I want explosions to be felt but don't need to knock the drywall off my neighbor's house. [​IMG] Needless to say, my wife prefers the wood finish (as do I) and the smaller size.

    Do I need all the power of the SVS? How do the two compare with regard to accuracy at low freq? Will the oboe sound like an oboe and the cello like a cello? I think that I will get enough bass out of either for the room. Am I right?

    Thanks in advance,
    EdD
     
  2. CurtisSC

    CurtisSC Screenwriter

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    You should be fine with either sub.

    I have a VTF-3 in a 14x18 room, with one uncloseable doorway, the it is more than I need, by far. I can rattle everything in the room. The VTF-3 is touted as being accurate. I have seen a VTF-3R, and it is very nice!

    I have not heard the PB2, but it is a larger sub, and just by physics alone, should be able to play louder.
     
  3. Frank Carter

    Frank Carter Screenwriter

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    The Hsu's performance is better compared to the SVS' CS/Pci series. The PB2 Plus will outperform it by a large margin.
     
  4. SVS-Ron

    SVS-Ron Screenwriter

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    EdD,

    Clearly the SVS is not your choice if you weigh the wood veneer criteria heavily and like the rosewood look.

    In terms of performance there would simply be no contest as Frank says.

    And no one should expect a contest. The PB2-Plus is roughly twice the size, has roughly four times the power, has two superior woofers (not that the VTF-3 driver is poor, hardly... but it's simply not in the same league as the TC-Sounds built "Plus" woofer SVS designed). You have to add, three 4" ports on the PB2-Plus vice two 3" ports.

    As we often say, it's not magic, it's physics that rule subwoofer performance (what Curtis said). Whether you "need" this much performance is largely dependent on your personal habits in music and movie playback.

    A hundred customers might have said as much but I wanted to mention it simply to ensure you consider the plus and minuses (perhaps looks versus performance in this case, your call).

    More importantly, there's the issue of the two subs the SVS Board of Directors just voted to book as pending products (should you seriously consider the PB2-Plus we're loath to have anyone "go there" and not have an idea of what's around the corner, as of today).

    The first is the PB1-Plus. It'll essentially be a box version of our PC-Plus subs, but in this case it'll provide folks 5 choices of wood finish (vice the custom "sky's the limit" approach of our B4-Plus) and come in around the $1,000 price point. Naturally it'll use the same Plus woofer ("only" one in this case) with our 525 watt amp and three 3" ports as you would expect. Still some details to work out but our goal is to have pre-orders running in 60 days (which is to say this is a sub that's been kicked around in R/D for about a year, sometimes we just have to give in to customer requests!).

    The second, is the rumored PB2-Ultra. Same wood finish choices as the PB1-Plus mentioned above (to wit: natural, pickled pine, antique brown, red mahogany, and jet black). As above too it'll be clear cabinet grade veneer on very costly 11 ply walls (a small step down from the hardwood maple used in the B4-Plus but very similar looking).

    Oh, you don't care about finish on the PB2-Ultra?? ;^) Ok, it'll have a 900 watt amp (we're still finalizing the feature set) and naturally a pair of our Ultra woofers and three 4" ports. It'll be a decent performance bump over the PB2-Plus but we know raw performance is only part of the reason folks lust over that cutting edge woofer. This time the Ultra guise will include looks that the PB2-Plus (in its basic but still sexy textured black) subs don't have as well. Our CFO is still running the numbers but we're pushing hard for a $2,000ish price point (not of interest to EdD in this case but I couldn't very well not mention the PB1-Plus and not this sub too.). Again, we're looking at a very rough 60 day goal for pre-orders. Lots of work remains and it could be 90 or 120 days. We don't intend to rush it when we're still not caught up with PB2-Plus orders that's for sure.

    So there you have it. If it weren't for persistent mail and connectivity problems this week this would have been up on our News page already. That should be remedied by tomorrow. For now you can honestly say you heard it here first. Hope EdD can forgive me for providing much more input than I'm sure he intended to provoke.

    Ron
     
  5. Chip E

    Chip E Screenwriter

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    Ron,

    that is very exciting news Wow, a PB2-Ultra ! and i ordered the PB2+ last night! Geeze, if it'll be 60 days or so, i might just want to wait for the Ultra. I've had my 20-39PC for well over two years now and am very happy with it. If it's more towards 120 days, i think i'd stay with the PB2+ (and still be thrilled).[​IMG]
     
  6. Jack Gilvey

    Jack Gilvey Producer

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  7. Rich:Fi

    Rich:Fi Agent

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    And I thought people were joking around with talk of the PB2-Ultra . . .

    All I can say is - YIPPEEEEE!
     
  8. Lew Crippen

    Lew Crippen Executive Producer

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  9. Arthur Vino

    Arthur Vino Stunt Coordinator

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    PB2-Ultra, nice!!
    I will be checking svsubwoofers.com web site very often tomorrow..
    .
     
  10. EdD

    EdD Agent

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    Thanks to everyone for their responses. First to clarify, the wood veneer is not huge on my personal list of requirements but the WAF is definitely higher. Also, I have read the great review on the PB2+ by Edward J M which is what led me to put the this SVS sub on my list rather than the PB1.

    My question is not so much which is a "better" sub or which will give me more bass. I acknoledge that the PB2+ is more sub than the VTF3. What I would like to know is which is more accurate (less distortion, flatter response, better handling of harmonics, etc.) at sane listening levels? I don't listen to music or watch movies at 75dB and my room is not that big. Is the PB2 to much sub for my setup? I know ... I know ... How can I have "too much" sub? [​IMG]

    If the PB2 is more than I need, then what about PB1 vs the VTF3? Again, I'm talking about accurately reproducing tonal qualities of particular instruments.

    I've always heard that Hsu is better for music but also does a good job with movies. Is there a consensus on this in this forum?

    From some old freq response tests on Hsu subs back when they were the "preferred sub of HTF", they produced a very flat response down to 16-20hz (depending on the model) and then a nice ramp below that. From Edward's tests, it looks the the PB2 has a reasonably flat response with a slight rise around 20-30hz and a cliff at 16hz (when tuned to 16hz). Does anyone have a current freq response plot for the VTF3?

    Again, thanks to all for the help.
     
  11. Jack Gilvey

    Jack Gilvey Producer

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  12. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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    EdD:

    I don't think you can ever have "too much sub". Someone recently purchased two (!!) SVS B4-Plus subs. His reason? More woofers equals less excursion for a given SPL. Less excursion equals lower distortion.

    While I agree that both subs will exhibit low distortion at moderate playback levels, the PB2-Plus will exhibit far lower distortion than the VTF-3 at any given SPL.

    Regarding music vs. HT, a subwoofer will sound as it measures. The subwoofer doesn't know or care whether it is being asked to play Das Boot or Bach's Organ Werks. If the sub exhibits a flat frequency response, low THD and IMD at high volumes, deep extension, and a linear FR vs. SPL relationship, it will sound great on any source material.

    Regarding the "musicality" of a subwoofer, here's a quote from Tom Vodhanel, designer of the PB2-Plus:

     
  13. Jason_Me

    Jason_Me Stunt Coordinator

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