HSU Subs and Distortion

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by Panther_B, Nov 17, 2004.

  1. Panther_B

    Panther_B Auditioning

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    I'm looking for more info about HSU subs. I believe they are great subs but I'm looking for distortion measurements. Are there any reviews with Freq vs. db vs. THD measurements on the net.

    Thanks,
    B
     
  2. Chris Quinn

    Chris Quinn Screenwriter

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    http://subwooferinfo.com/

    In the frequency response column the low number is were the sub reaches 10% THD. Less than 10% THD is considered clean. The subs may go quite a bit lower than that number but are distorted below the frequency range number.
     
  3. Panther_B

    Panther_B Auditioning

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    Great link. Thanks Chris.

    Later,
    B
     
  4. Craig Chase

    Craig Chase Gear Guru
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    Unfortunately, there are about 3 subs on that list that are still made... at one time, it WAS a pretty good list..
     
  5. CurtisSC

    CurtisSC Screenwriter

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    Are there even that many?
     
  6. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    One glaring error on this "list" is the TN25 not being correctly listed. Per the actual review in STEREO REVIEW, NOV,1997 the TN25 hit 107.1dB from 25-63hz. Anyone with access to that issue would be able to easily verify that.

    It looks like about half of them are stilll available as-is or in "updated form".(like the SVS 20-39cs still being the 20-39cs but with the ISD driver). Even the ones not available at all...a lot of folks looking at used subs can get some insight into how they performed when "Nousained".

    Tom Nousaine would have to review a half a dozen subwoofers every month to have a chance of keeping up..[​IMG]

    Tom V.
    SVS
     
  7. Panther_B

    Panther_B Auditioning

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    I think that the lack of objective measurements is part of a larger problem.

    It would be really nice if more reviewers included objective measurements of subs and speakers.

    That would really help people like me narrow my choices for the best (most accurate) components in my price range.

    As for now, I guess I'll roll the dice and place an order for...HSU or SVS or Velodyne or Rel or VMPS.

    Later,
    B

    P.S. Audio in like the X-Files. Is the truth out there?
     
  8. Craig Chase

    Craig Chase Gear Guru
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    Edward JM has done several reviews here on HTF, and is now using the same measuring methodology that Keith Yates used in his 12 subwoofer shootout in Ultimate A/V ... It is uniform enough that I used the same methods in the Maestro review (summary available on ACI's site) ... I also tested a PB10-ISD and posted results within 1 dB and 1 Hz in all measurements that Ed did in his PB-10 review.

    In my view, Ed takes Yate's approach a bit further by posting MUCH easier to read graphs, and with descriptions that show he is not trying to prove he is a walking thesaurus...

    Hopefully, as time permits, Ed will be doing many more reviews ...

    As far as I can see, they are the best in the business.
     
  9. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    Yes but Ed is biased(so I heard) [​IMG]

    {Please note I don't believe that for a second with regards to his testing purposes].
     
  10. Craig Chase

    Craig Chase Gear Guru
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    I have had many a private chat with those who claimed "Bias" for Ed. MOST of those no longer think he is biased, because, once the methodology of Ed's reviews was examined, it became clear to them that the review HAS to be objective... numbers do not lie.

    Does Ed have a *preference* for SVS subwoofers.... yes, they are his favorite.

    I also just read a review in the newest Stereophile in which Kal Rubinson declared the Paradigm Studio 60 V.3 is the BEST speaker available for $1600. Not one of the best, THE best. The review STARTS with Kal declaring his bias towards and for Paradigm. I like Kal's writing style, but I don't think Fox News will be hiring him.

    As for Ed ... SVS is his favorite because noone has knocked them "off the top" yet. I have no doubt that, when someone DOES send Ed a subwoofer which objectively competes with SVS, he will report on it. He is a engineer. That is what engineers do.
     
  11. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    *snif* *snif*, that just brought a tear to my eye, excuse me while I compose myself...*snif*

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Craig Chase

    Craig Chase Gear Guru
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    Easy now... Engineers NEVER cry ... [​IMG]
     
  13. Jack Gilvey

    Jack Gilvey Producer

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    Having had numerous correspondences with Ed, I feel any claims of bias are unfounded. Moronic, even. Such useful objective performance measures as Ed provides are just that: objective. He's friggin' smart, too.
    Now, all the flowery claims of "musicality" one reads all over about (inevitably objectively lesser) subs usually strike me as just so much bullshit. That stuff can mean anything anyone wants it to mean...depending on what one is selling or espousing or denigrating at the moment. This is particularly prevalent over at AVS. Lest someone take that as an "SPL is all that counts" statement, what I mean is that purely subjective estimates of a sub's worth are prone to bias, and lies. Worthless to me.
     
  14. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    Oh but listening is the key. You buy a sub on listening. You don't buy a sub based on #'s.

    Sorry to play devils advocate but I guess the people who keep mentioning this type of stuff are banned over here [​IMG]
     
  15. Jack Gilvey

    Jack Gilvey Producer

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    Your own listening, right? Not someone else's (biased) impressions. And, of course, "numbers" are much more useful than many would care to believe. The more one understands the "numbers", the less one is threatened by them.
     
  16. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    Trust me when I say that I don't believe a word of what I've typed thus far.


    I owned what most would call a musical sub(M&K) and I've heard what others would have called an OUTPUT sub. I'll take the output sub anyday. I didn't feel they gave up anything in the music area to the output sub. Don't get me wrong I loved my M&K but there are better out there now. I just thought they were underpowered.

    Thanks to all the great guys here(Craig, Ed etc) I've learned alot but I don't 100% trust #'s all the way. I listen myself and use the #'s as a guide. They are not the end all be all(to me). I don't totally rule out objective and subjective information.
     
  17. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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    Thanks for the props guys, but Keith Yates IMO clearly sets the equipment reviewer's gold standard for outdoor testing. While Craig might take exception with his data presentation, his equipment, software, and test methodology is first rate.

    While I think I take as much care as anyone in data aquisition and methodology adherence - and I'm generating solid data compared to known benchmarks, I'm not running Gold Line TEF-30 or Linear X LMS with a $600 mic - and on my testing budget, that probably won't change in the near future.

    Yates can measure true power compression better than I can, because the TEF features a 30 second sweep, whereas TrueRTA is a much faster sweep, thus being a better indicator of dynamic output limit. Both tests have value, and I'd like to add a slower sweep to the test regiment.

    Per Mark Seaton's suggestion, I've been experimenting with pink noise as an indicator of long term output and/or power/thermal compression. I haven't had the best luck inducing compression in the lowest octave with pink noise. I can eventually overload the speaker, but it seems to overload uniformly rather than biasing the bottom octave as you might expect and/or have seen in Yates' testing with the long FR sweep.

    I think it's because the average level at any given frequency with pink noise is far lower (as compared to a slow sine sweep), even while the overall/aggregate playback volume is extremely loud with pink noise. I've PM'd Mark Seaton for some feedback, and haven't heard back from him yet.

    Regards,

    Ed
     
  18. MikeDuke

    MikeDuke Stunt Coordinator

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    I just wish to echo what Shane said so well. Numbers only tell half the story. It is what sounds good to you, that is what matters. Also, reading Ed's and Craig's reviews and posts have been very educational and down right fun. Reading their posts has given me insight on the review process as well as how speakers work and that has made it easier for me to understand things that I did not know before.
    Mike D
     
  19. BruceD

    BruceD Screenwriter

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    While I don't necessarily disagree with the above statement, the more you actually understand the principles, math (and graphs) behind acoustic propoagation in a room, the more the numbers can tell you about the quality you will hear.
     
  20. MikeDuke

    MikeDuke Stunt Coordinator

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    I understand that completely. That is what I am trying to learn. Math was never my strong point. LD Math can be kind of a burden sometimes. What I like is that the graphs and numbers are presented in such a way that I can understand them. I will agree that numbers can give you something to base your views on though. It can give you a base line. That I think is important.
     

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