Howard Ferstler's review of HSU VTF-3 (1 Viewer)

[Mike Sloan]

Copyrighted magazine story removed from this post by administrator. You may only post links to copyrighted material. Do not repost.

 

[BrianKR]

That's a good review but his comparison with a SVS sub concerns me a little.

It doesn't specifically state which SVS PC sub he tested against the VTF-3. A PCi sub isn't a fair comparison. Also why would he have a (16-12hz sub

 

[Mike Sloan]

I wonder if he has an Email address...I was thinking the same thing. Have there been any objective measurements comparing the SVS Ultra against the TN1220HO? I thought I saw where Tom V. had data on this.

 

[BrianKR]

I just thought it would make more sense to compare a SVS PC+ 25-31 against a VTF-3.
I would be interested in a side by side comparison with a PC+ 20-39 up against a TN1220.

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

The 16-46PC HF reviewed was a first generation SVS with the old driver and old amp. The current model 16-46PCi with the ISD driver, and the new 320w BASH amp is $649.(30% less than the vtf-3). I agree, I would like to see a 25-31PC+ in the same room with the vtf-3(which would still be 10% more expensive)...I think that would be more apples to apples.

TV

 

[BrianKR]

Thx for clearing that up Tom.
That's what I thought. I remember HF's old review of your CS sub. IMHO that is irresponsible of Howard F. to post a comparison using your old CS sub instead of a new PC+ in the same HZ range & closer price range. I had/have the VTF-3 and the SVS CS+ 20-39 and did side by side comparisons for over a month. My opinion/review of the 2 subs (which is a *fair* comparison) is quite the opposite of HF's.

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

Hi Brian,
Well, SVS is still quite small even compared to a company like HSU(I believe we have about 5-10% of his monthly advertising budget for example). So just getting ANYTHING in print is an accomplishment for SVS. HF can only compare products he has reviewed...so I can understand how the dated SVS would be compared to the brand new HSU. Who knows...maybe in 2 years we'll have a brand new *PCii* that he'll compare to the (then) 2 year old HSU
TV

 

[Mike Sloan]

Could you not send HF the latest offering from SVS? Just how do you go about getting a product reviewed? Do you have to buy advertising first? The company who spends the most gets the most favorable reviews? Is this why DEFTECH always gets glowing accolades? I guess on a forum (like this) the playing field is a little more level!

 

[Tim Hoover]

I am confused about one thing. From the review:

and the SVS could hit 113 and 102

Under both circumstances, it looks like the SVS puts out more at 20Hz. Is this entirely contradictory, or am I missing something?

BTW, I agree with the above posters about Mr. Ferstler's misleading SVS info. If he couldn't actually obtain a new PCi or PC+ for review, at least he should have let the readers know that there were better and/or improved models available and checked the current prices...

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

Hi Mike,

Reviewers generally have a TON of gear backed up to *review*. Then even if you get them to agree to do a review...it can take them 6 months to open your box and another 6 months for the review to get printed. Some of the review gear is stuff the reviewers can choose to review themselves(and sell the review to whatever mag wants it). Some of the review gear is dictated to the reviewers by the magazine they write for. If SVS spent $25,000 a month advertising in some of the larger mags...we would probably have a better chance of seeing a SVS review in them. That is just businesss really. I wouldn't lump HF in with reviewers who are slanted by ad dollars. I have known the man for many years(well before SVS) and he seems like a great guy to me. Your concern about ad dollars affecting review content is shared by many though...I think that is why I value objective data so much. How many times do we see a subjective review just raving over a product...and then Tom Nousaine's measurements show it performing poor to average?

Just for the record, HF has reviewed the 25-31PCi and it should be in the next issue of T$$.(the sensible sound). I don't think he'll comment on it until the review hits the newsstands though.


TIM,

Those differences are because the frequency response of the subs and their maximum clean output levels at certain frequencies are two different things entirely.

You could literally have a subwoofer that would only extend to say 45-50hz in Tom Nousaines huge room(like the rsw15)but still measure impressive amounts of 20hz output(like the same rsw15) when fed a 20hz tone and cranked way up.

TV

 

[Chris Sherman]

There's an excellent review of the VTF-3 in DEC. Stereophile Guide to Home Theater . I just got my issue today. I found the manufacturers' comments from Dr. Hsu very informative as well . He points out a few flaws in Robert Deutsch's findings but in a very humble and insightful way. The Dr. seems to be a class act, much like the guys at SVS.

 

[BradJudy]

Am I the only one who finds it inappropriate to post an entire article from a non-free magazine to the internet? That seems to go greatly beyond any form of fair use.

 

[Mike Sloan]

Insulting personal remarks to another HTF member removed by administrator. Do not post like this again.
p.s. I heard There's an excellent review of the VTF-3 in DEC. Stereophile Guide to Home Theater . I'll post it for you when I get a chance. And yes, I did over react a smig.
Like hell you will. Do not post a copied-and-pasted magazine review on this board. It is against HTF policy. Links only. And, yes, your reaction to the other member's post is out of line.

 

[Bhagi Katbamna]

It is great to be a consumer in this time. I think that as members of this forum, we get caught up in minutae(1-3 dB) differences at around 100dB. HF is essentially comparing a Ferrari and a Lamborghini so of course they are going to be close. What would have been more telling is if he compared the HSU or the SVS to a similarly priced Velodyne.

 

[Mike Sloan]

You know...Howard Ferstler may have used an older SVS in the review. I have heard that the TN1220 was also an older model and the amp was certainly not the 500W offering. I don't think the driving force of the article was to pit HSU against SVS. I haven't heard Velodyne owners rushing to the defense of the poor, old, and decrepit F1800RII! I think what surprised me more than anything is the little VTF-2's performance! I have the VTF3 and it doesn't suck. At the same time I would also love the SVS Ultra and feel that SVS is second to none in customer satisfaction!I must be schizoid.

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

HF replaced the driver in his TN20 with the newest offering from Hsu a while back. He even wrote a few paragraphs about it in a TSS 2-3 issues ago. I don't think the performance changed much...maybe a dB difference at 30hz or something like that. So he is essentially using a current TN20(not sure if he has the 250 or 500w amp now) for all his comparisons.
The VTF-2 did well, but I don't think it was a *revolution* or anything...at least not based on the objective numbers...here are a few of the

 

[steve nn]

Tom I thank you so much. Your words will be forgotten by many but I will remember them. It is because of your product and the way you handle yourself on this forum that I plan on adding a SVS sub next to my small but not yet done collection. I know when I start defending my 15" velo's it becomes my problem. Thanks for adding the sanity Tom.

 

[Stacy Huff]

In what magazine did the review appear?

 

[Mike Sloan]

Stacy Huff:
The"glowing" review of the HSU VTF-3 can be found over at the AVS forum or The Audiophile Voice, Vol. 8, #4 Howard Ferstler.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=141644&goto=newpost

 

[Drew Bethel]

That link doesn't work.