How will older 4:3 programs be broadcast after 2006? (1 Viewer)

[Frank@N]

I don't have an HDTV, but am considering the upgrade.

Currently I'm happy with my direct-view 4:3 + 16x9 enhancement.

I'm considering a larger HD direct-view, but would still prefer 4:3 design because of it's inherent flexibility (no zooming or stretching).

Question: How will older 1.33 ratio programs be broadcast after the looming government-mandated DTV conversion?

Will they continue to be broadcast in the 1.33 ratio that they were shot in (say, Friends).

Or will they be 'remastered' in 1.78 format like Sopranos on DVD (essentially cropped).

Since I don't know what the networks are currently broadcasting on DTV, could someone please clue me in.

If *ALL* programs will be broadcast in 1.78 ratio in a few short years, this would affect my choice of screen ratios.

I recall another poster indicating that local TV news programs were still being broadcast in 1.33 even over DTV.

This would seem to indicate that 1.33 won't be going away after 2006. Maybe?

 

[Patrick Sun]

The older shows will simply be shown in their native 1.33 aspect ratio, but on a 16x9 screen, you'll see black sidebars to maintain the 1.33 original aspect ratio (it's like that now on channels being broadcast via ATSC).

 

[Frank@N]

Sounds like you're saying the 1.33 ratio will be encapsuled *in* the 1.78 signal/screen area.

This would work well enough for those with 1.78 screens, but would be very wasteful if you had a 4:3 HDTV.

If this is indeed the future of TV, today's TV buyers should shop carefully.

 

[Patrick Sun]

I have a 4:3 HDTV, and for the windowing of 1.33 shows doesn't bother me much anymore. I knew what I was getting into when I bought the set last December. I figure in another 3-4 years, I'll get another TV and by then, the choice will be made for me (only 16x9 sets will be the norm in terms of HDTV offerings).

I'm already used to black bars on the top and bottom for films with OAR of 1.85, 2.35, what-have-you. I still watch a lot of TV in the 1.33 AR, so it was a compromise I was more than willing to make, but it would be my last chance to get a HDTV in a 4:3 form factor.

Some people will stretch 1.33 shows horizontally to reduce the effects of screen burn, but I don't like watching people looking 25 pounds heavier if I can help it.

 

[Marc_Sulinski]

Some HD sets have a 16:9 1080i zoom mode. I have seen this on some 16:9 models where I don't think it is very useful. I would guess that some other manufacturers make a 1080i zoom on their 4:3 HDTV sets.

 

[Lew Crippen]

Sounds like you're saying the 1.33 ratio will be encapsuled *in* the 1.78 signal/screen area.

That is exactly what Patrick is saying.

If you look at the ATSC specs, you will find that the formats currently being telecast all call for 16:9 aspect ratio in the telecasts.

If you had an HD set, you would see that is exactly how the digital channels are transmitted today when the native program content is not 16:9—the 4:3 frame is put inside a 16:9 aspect ratio. So that you are aware, it works the same way when 2.35:1 films are telecast in their proper aspect ratio on a digital channel—the 2.35:1 frame is put inside one with a 16:9 aspect ratio, resulting in a picture that has unused space (black bars) above and below the picture.

I’m not sure what you mean about ‘flexibility’—I have two 16:9 sets and don’t use the stretch or zoom features except sometimes when watching a ‘talking head’ show. Or to get a movie (for example) on a SD channel into its proper aspect ratio.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

1) 2006 won't happen until at least 2007, probably much later. Even Japan isn't shutting off analog until 2011, and they have a lot more early adopters.

2) Only ten of the eighteen different ATSC modes are widescreen, the rest are 4:3. Some 4:3 material will be windowboxed widescreen, some will be tilt-and-scan widescreen :frowning:, and plenty will be simply broadcast in 4:3 704x480 or 640x480 (both available in 60p, 60i, 30p, and 24p).

 

[Frank@N]

I’m not sure what you mean about ‘flexibility’—I have two 16:9 sets and don’t use the stretch or zoom

I was under the impression that some (?) 16x9 HDTVs force you to use stretch or zoom to avoid damaging the product.

Is it safe to say that most current 16x9 TVs allow you to watch 4:3 signals windowboxed?

 

[Douglas*A*R]

Or will they be 'remastered' in 1.78 format like Sopranos on DVD (essentially cropped).

Just to pick the nit, The Sopranos OAR is 1.78:1 and has been since season 1. If you look at the standard-def broadcast, you'll see black bars at the top and bottom of the screen. The high-def broadcast will fill the whole screen.

 

[Steve Phillips]

Oh, you are absolutely going to see old movies and TV shows cropped and/or tilt and scanned for 16X9 quite often, I assure you.

Don't count on them being run in their native ratios on a routine basis.

 

[Frank@N]

The Sopranos OAR is 1.78:1 and has been since season 1.

I don't have HBO, so I never saw the original broadcasts.

But I thought some of the DVD reviews stated that the program was 1.33, remastered at 1.78 for DVD (like the early season ER DVD sets).

I watch more DVD than TV, so I'm a little out of the loop.

 

[Frank@N]

tilt and scanned for 16X9

Does this amount to some form of zooming at the broadcaster level?

 

[Lew Crippen]

Oh, you are absolutely going to see old movies and TV shows cropped and/or tilt and scanned for 16X9 quite often, I assure you.

Don't count on them being run in their native ratios on a routine basis.

Very true, but it will depend on the channel—just as it does now. TCM and FMC for example almost always show their movies in the proper aspect ratio, even though the telecast in 4:3 SD. AMC almost always uses fits all their movies to the 4:3 aspect ratio, regardless of its OAR.

HBOH usually fits their widescreen movies to fit the 16:9 frame even if it was shot in 2.35:1. Showtime HD usually does not (but that may have changed, as I don't subscribe any longer).

 

[Nelson Au]

Ironic isn't it, the film industry felt it needed to find a way to recapture the audience in the 50's with widescreen films and now in the next few years, TV will go all the way to widescreen.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still using a 4:3 direct view set and I really want to buy a new 16:9 set. And I don't have cable either. But I'm okay to wait too till 2006 ish and see how things fall into place.

 

[DeathStar1]

Here's something(not meaning to get too off topic), how do you convince a parent to upgrade to an HDTV Widscreen(Non Projection) set for Christmas?

They don't seem to be too concerned about the Government Mandate in two years yet, despite two of our friends already upgrading. I viewed the BTTF Trilogy on my friends set last Christmas and was blown away. Just having the letterbox fill the screen will be worth it alone .


Now that the prices are below the $2,000 mark, it's a bit more reasonable to ask for one for Christma now .

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

But I thought some of the DVD reviews stated that the program was 1.33, remastered at 1.78 for DVD (like the early season ER DVD sets).

It was. But rather than tilt-and-scan, season one had the sides opened up. It is one of the worst cases of empty space syndrome on DVD.

 

[Lew Crippen]

Here's something(not meaning to get too off topic), how do you convince a parent to upgrade to an HDTV Widscreen(Non Projection) set for Christmas?

What are your parent’s interests? The answer to that question will provide you with your approach.

For example if one of your parents is a big sports fan, it will get pretty easy. More and more sports are being telecast in HD. ESPN now has an HD channel—of course you need a satellite service or the right cable for this—the Stanley Cup will be in HD. Monday night football is in HD, as is Sunday night football, SEC football (one game each Saturday) and at least one Sunday NFL game. The U.S. Open (tennis) and the Masters are in HD.

There is some assorted basketball in HD—and so on.

Or if it is movies that your parents like, HBO and Showtime have HD channels, plus there is a whole lot of PPV HD and there is an HD movie channel on DirecTV. That plus the better look that DVDs have on most HD sets should persuade them. For the TV junky parent, most network primetime is in HD, except reality shows. But not much for the daytime TV addict. Basically there is more HD TV than we can watch.

And there are odd things like the Discovery HD channel that might put them over the top.

But if none of these things appeal to your parents, it may be an uphill struggle.

 

[Steve Phillips]

Just remember, tell them they'll still have black space at the top and bottom when watching a 2:35 to 1 movie on a 16X9 set, just not as much as on a 4X3 set.

 

[Ted Lee]

semi-related question.

when watching a broadcast movie that's OAR, on a 16x9 set, what happens to the black bars? do you simply zoom the pic? i've always wondered that...

 

[Wayne Bundrick]

They don't seem to be too concerned about the Government Mandate in two years yet,

There is no government mandate.

There is no 2006 deadline.

The FCC did originally say that the transition to digital TV would last through 2006 and then all analog NTSC transmissions would shut off in 2007, but six years ago Congress laid the smackdown on that stupid idea and adopted a more consumer-friendly rule: in each community, NTSC will be allowed to continue beyond 2006 until 85% of the households are viewing the digital signals on at least one television set in the household.

It's weird how everyone remembers the rule set by a government agency but not the law passed by Congress which overrode it.