How much of a difference in sound quality is there amongt CD players? (1 Viewer)

[KeithH]

If you bought a new CD player, I doubt that you could tell the difference between it and the one you currently own without peeking.

Of course I could be wrong about that--but I haven't been yet.

Norm, you have come to the wrong conclusion because you haven't listened to the right players, the associated equipment you have used wasn't good enough to bring out the differences between players (you extol the virtues of budget Kenwood receivers after all), you have no ability to be objective, so you have conviced yourself that all players sound the same, or your hearing is impaired. Yes, you are wrong about this.

 

[Chip E]

John & Keith,
I contacted ModWright about juice'n up the 555.... early Feb. they'll be doing 555ES mods.

 

[JerryW]

I understand that the quality of parts will be better in a more expensive player. I don't completely understand why is it so important in digital domain. For example, why would you care about power supply? You buy the cheapest CD-ROM for your computer, it is clanky and junky, but it still going to read those game CDs without errors, meaning that the reading part (laser and positioning) works just fine. It's all digital.

Actually, that's incorrect. The DAC in most PC CD-ROMs is in the CD reader. That little cable that runs to your sound card is transferring the analog L&R stereo signals (as far as CD audio is concerned). But to answer your other question, no, I don't use the cheapest CD-ROM drive I can find in my PC. I only use Plextor drives (and Toshiba DVDs). Why? Because they rip audio CDs faster than any other drives in the world (20-24x avg) and they're the most reliable drives you can buy. Currently in my PC I have the following:

Plextor 40x SCSI CD-ROM

Plextor 12x/4x/32x SCSI CD-RW

Toshiba 5x SCSI DVD-ROM

One important thing to remember with DA extraction is this: cheap CD-ROM drives, at some point, WILL cause audio drop-outs and sound distortion (identified as a "click" or an audible warble. I've seen it many times, and there's very few things more anoying that waiting 2-3 minutes for a song to be extracted only to find that the rip is defective... meaning you have to start all over again. This really sucks when you're ripping entire CDs and you find that most are screwed up. As it is, I don't have to worry about it. I *know* my extractions are good without having to fuss with knit-picking through each song looking for errors.

The bottom line is: I carry that same principle over to home audio. If a product feels cheap or inferior I don't even consider using it. It's worth some extra money to avoid aggravation and problems down the road. Plus, like I said before, I hate the sound of cheap trays and klunky motors found in low-tier CD players and changers. It effects my enjoyment of the sound because I know that there's a piece of junk in my audio rack.

*rattle* *rattle* *klunk* *rattle* *chug* *rattle* *whirrrrr*

Get the idea? To be honest, I don't know if "jitter" is audible or not... I just want a quality piece of gear I can count on. No, I don't think everyone needs to buy a $1000+ CD player, but a quality $300 piece (a DCM-370, CC-4000, CA70ES, etc) is a great investment.

 

[KeithH]

Chip, are you going to have your 'C555ES modified? What types of mods will Dan Wright offer and have prices been announced? These mods that everyone is raving about are intriguing, but I am not going to have any of my SACD players modified. For one thing, I don't want to void the warranty. Secondly, I am perfectly happy with how the stock players sound. Regarding the warranty, I had to take a six-month-old Sony ES minidisc deck in for repair last week and was very glad to have the five-year coverage. That is one of the reasons I go with Sony ES whenever possible. I would hate to have an SACD player modified and then observe a mechanical or tracking problem. I'd be screwed.

 

[KeithH]

Jerry said:

No, I don't think everyone needs to buy a $1000+ CD player, but a quality $300 piece (a DCM-370, CC-4000, CA70ES, etc) is a great investment.

Yeah, but isn't a 'CA80ES even a better investment?

 

[JerryW]

Sure is... why, you still have that other one up for sale?
I have to say, I'm very pleased with the one I bought from you. It's a great carousel changer.

 

[KeithH]

Jerry, nope. The other 'CA80ES sold very shortly after I sold the one to you. Glad you are enjoying it.

 

[JerryW]

Damn, I was hoping that maybe I could buy the other from you and link them. Oh well.

 

[Chip E]

Keith,
I've been reading about your mini disc trama's.. I hope all is going well with your baby lol..
ModWright doesn't have anything official yet about modifications for the 555. Ya know, i'm more curious about the possibilities for the player than anything else and i buy "ES" for the same reasons you do One thing i like that they'll do is add a FAT detachable power cord. I'll probably look into it a little further near the end of January. I doubt i'll do anything too my player either.

 

[dougW]

There can be a huge difference in CD players. Much of which can be attributed to DAC quality of course.

I recently upgraded from a Sony S7000 DVD/CD player using 20 bit DACs to a Rega Jupiter with 24 bit awesome DACs, and the differences were immediately noticable. Of course, a 2000 CD player isn't for everyone, but the Rega Planet entry piece is very nice, and a great player in it's own right. But still your talking 600-700 bucks I think.

Lex

 

[KeithH]

Jerry said:

Damn, I was hoping that maybe I could buy the other from you and link them. Oh well.

Sorry. I was at J&R Music World's brick-and-mortar store in New York City a few weeks ago, and they still had the 'CA80ES. I believe it was priced around $370 if you are interested. Of course, they do mail order. You might check Oade Bros. too for a good price.
Chip,
I've been checking the Sony Service web site looking for a change in the status of my repair on the 'JA555ES. Nothing yet, but it's only been five six working days. Sony says that 15 working days is typical for a repair to be completed. I am keeping my fingers crossed.
As I said before, these modification on SACD players really intrigue me, but I am not willing to throw away the warranty in the process. What would be cool would be to see what Dan Wright, Richard Kern, or Ric Schultz could do with the Sony 'CE775, or better yet, the 'XE670 if it is ever available in the US. With those players, the initial cash outlay is small ($300 or so), and the warranty is only a year in duration. I'd love to see what they could do with one of those players. Of course, the results could be so dramatic, I might ask myself why I bought the ES SACD players.

 

[KeithH]

Chip, I just checked Sony's web site, and my 'JA555ES has been repaired! I should have it back next week! Hopefully they really fixed it.

 

[JerryW]

Thanks Keith, but you know how I am... I'm CHEAP. I'd much rather buy a well kept used piece of gear than fork the $ for new. Leaves me more cash available for DVDs and music.

 

[Holadem]

Sure is... why, you still have that other one up for sale?

Nope, she has found a new home in my setup and is perfectly happy where she is, thankyouverymuch.

--
Holadem - don't even think about it

 

[KeithH]

And, Holadem, the other 'CA80ES buyer chimes in. Glad the player is working out for you too.

Jerry, I can understand your line of reasoning.

 

[Doug_B]

Based on the discussions in this thread and another recent one, it looks like you folks have convinced me to upgrade to a better CD player. I am in the midst of putting a new system together almost from scratch, which will be in progress for the next couple of weeks, and as my speakers that I am auditioning are breaking in (I hope the brightness goes away soon ), I need to decide whether to get just a CDP or also go the SACD route. I do want a unit that doesn't just provide good transport / digital output but also a quality analog out. At least I'll have the flexibility to determine the better sound for each source material (of course SACD doesn't provide such a choice).
So my dilemma is determining whether I want to spend the money for SACD (e.g., the Sony 555ES or just a 2 channel model) or stay with a standard CD player (e.g., Marantz, Sony CA80ES). I'd like to know others' opinions on the increased perceived quality of SACDs vs CDs for the same material, also factoring in that my musical tastes are anchored on classic 70's rock (although I have started looking at more offshoots in the jazz family and selections that have a good brass sound, and overall I like material with good pace and energy). Also, I'd like to know if there is much difference between the standard CD versus a remastered CD, again taking into account that most of my material is from the 70's. For example, is a remastered Wish You Were Here album worth it with one of the above CDPs?
I will have a revealing system otherwise. I'm currently auditioning a pair of Soundline Audio ribbon speakers (SL-3s), which will be coupled with an Odyssey Stratos amp and either an Outlaw 950 or Anthem AVM 20 controller (probably the latter unless Outlaw comes through very soon). FYI, my room is 13x20x8 and is fairly deadened (carpeting, drapes on large chunks of 3 of the 4 walls). I am currently using a Pioneer 333 DVD player, and since I don't have an HT controller/receiver yet, I am not even using the digital out yet. Ouch!
Thanks.
Doug

 

[Evan S]

Doug, based on reviews from Chip and Keith in this forum, I would suggest going the 555ES route. In fact, I'm ordering mine today from Oade Bros. I am foremost concerned with Redbook playback and from what Chip and Keith say, that's spectacular with that player. It fits into my budget and I say the SACD benefits are just a bonus as I have never heard the format but have heard great things. I figure if SACD flops down the road, I still have a 5 year warranty on a great transport and that's good enough for me.

 

[KeithH]

Doug said:

I do want a unit that doesn't just provide good transport / digital output but also a quality analog out. At least I'll have the flexibility to determine the better sound for each source material

I couldn't agree more. This is one of the reasons I always advocate the purchase of a good all-around CD player to some who feel that all transports sound the same (not saying you fall into that category). Definitely give yourself the flexibility. One should not always assume that a receiver's DAC is better than one in a CD player.
If you can swing $800 for the 'C555ES by mail, go for it. It is definitely a better CD player than the Sony 'CA80ES. I know because I replaced a 'CA80ES with a 'C555ES. Until recently, I owned two 'CA80ES changers, so I am very familiar with it. It is a very good changer for the price, but the 'C555ES is decidedly better. Plus, you get stereo and multi-channel SACD playback and exceptional build quality (the player weighs 24 lbs., 5 oz.).
Since you live in New Jersey, another option you ought to seriously consider is the Sony 'C333ES, which is a stereo SACD changer. It was discontinued a few months ago, but Tweeter stores are blowing them out for $488. I doubt Tweeter will have them much longer.
The 'C333ES looks just like the 'C555ES and weighs a bit over 23 lbs., so it is a tank as well. I have one in my second system and am very pleased with its operation. It is a great CD player and certainly beats the 'CA80ES in CD mode. I also feel the 'C333ES is a better CD player than my Pioneer Elite PD-65, which has been much-revered over the years.
I was in the Tweeter store in West Windsor, New Jersey, last night, and they had the 'C333ES for $488 (brand new in a sealed box). They had a sign next to the display model indicating the original retail price of $1200, and a hand written sign next to it said "$488 No Joke!". In case you are not aware, West Windsor is near Princeton, and this Tweeter store is on the southbound side of Route 1 across the highway from Quaker Bridge Mall. If you can get down to this store, I suggest you make the trip. It's possible that not all Tweeter stores have the player anymore. Call ahead to make sure the West Windsor store still has the player in stock because quantities could be limited.

 

[KeithH]

Evan, congratulations on your impending purchase. I don't think you will be disappointed.

 

[Doug_B]

Keith,

I was in the Tweeter store in West Windsor, New Jersey, last night, and they had the 'C333ES for $488 (brand new in a sealed box).

Thanks for the tip. Sounds very attractive. It would appear to be less than an hour drive for me, Xmas traffic excepted.

Keith, I did notice your CD and SACD list, so maybe you can provide me feedback on my previous questions concerning redbook CD vs SACD and vs remastered redbook for various classic rock in general, and any specific examples.

Thanks again,

Doug