how many of you actually USE the Denon warranty? (1 Viewer)

[Phil Mays]

Perhaps, however it's like a car dealership. There are always ways to get around the "rules" for their very best customers.

 

[Joe B]

I have used my warranty once. A transistor blew out on my 5600, and I'm glad I had it. It was fixed in a week and haven't had a problem since then (over a year).

 

[charles mix]

do the e-tailers spend less for the product from the middle man then the brick and mortar? If so I might be able to somewhat justify the lack of warranty from Denon. I suspect however that Denon gets the same amount of money from the e-tailer and the B&M. So they make more money on the e-tailer since they provide no warranty support, a large part of company overhead. I also know that Denon makes very few of their own replacement parts, so they save again. Denon needs to step up to the plate and support the product they sell (to whomever). They would have to prove the product I buy from joe e-tailer is significantly different then the guy down the street. If you make it , stand behind it. How long would a car company stay in business if you bought a car from a non dealer, and they said sorry we won't stand behind the product? Some of the receiver cost as much as a small car, so get with it Denon.

 

[Phil Mays]

I think this is a loyality question for those businesses that supported Denon over the years. If e-tailers were given the same "ammenities" as the brick & mortar store then a person would simply go to the store, test the product,then return home and purchase off the net at a substantial cost reduction due to greatly reduced land/lease pricing and ongoing operational costs. An e-tailer can almost be given a "shell" building in an economically repressed town and do great business whereas the brick & motar company has to pay a premium for their "exposure", (location, location, location).

However I agree with Charles that something should be done.
Perhaps I don't get it. Why wouldn't Denon offer a warrenty unless these were "b-stock" units that a company is buying in bulk? If thats the case then the e-tailer has a responsibility to state the condition of the product.

 

[Bill_D]

pay a premium for their "exposure", (location, location, location).

This is almost comical since the e-tailers are everywhere for anyone. So as location goes, the e-tailers win and they have better pricing. So Denon currently has no other vehicle than warranty and support to [rant]try[/rant] and keep the recognized (aka authorized) outlets ahead of the unauthorized e-tailers. I guess an argument could be made that the e-tailers are a better easy revenue stream for them since they probably profit the same on each unit sold without any legal or financial obligation to provide support.

I believe Denon could severely crack down on unauthorized sales if they wanted to.

 

[AustinKW]

OK guys - here's the deal.

Authorized dealer wants 25 units (lets say 3803). He orders 50 units from Denon in order to lower his per unit cost due to the quantity discount Denon offers. Now he goes and flogs 25 units at his cost (or just a bit above)to an unauthorized outlet. So he ends up with his 25 units at a lower cost to him so he gets more profit as he sells them. He could care less what happens to the other units. And, if you think about it, Denon has an interest in "looking the other way" about the whole deal. It has sold 50 units rather than 25. And the unauthorized guy can't get product direct from Denon so he's happy too. It's a cozy arrangement all around. Do we really want to change things?

Austin

 

[Phil Mays]

Good point Austin. But I cannot imagine spending that kinda jack on an electrical unit w/o a warranty, even if it is at a 30% discount.

Also, why would Denon subject their "good name" to poor press over a product fault. I guess my point is whether it's a authorized or unauthorized dealer it's still a Denon product.

You know what they say..."If your happy with something you'll tell 10 people and if you unhappy with something you'll tell 100 people".

 

[DarrinH]

Todd, I went into a B&M dealer in Tenn. and just told the guy what I wanted and what I was willing to pay. I bought a Denon 2802 for $480 because that was the lowest price I could find on the net. He went and checked something on the computer and said yea I can do the deal for that.
Walked out with a brand new unit with the warranty at an internet price.
Give that a try.

 

[AustinKW]

Hi Phil,

It's all about CHOICE! Denon's current tri-level distribution scheme provides the maximum number of CHOICES to consumers.

Choice 1:

Authorized dealer channel - Highest price, highest level of support both from dealer and from factory. Ability to "test drive" the product, A/B it against other products, use purchase "credits" against future product purchases, etc., etc.

Choice 2:

Mass-market channel - Medium price, no dealer support, minimum factory support. Sears, ABC Warehouse, possibly CC and BB in the near future. One year factory warranty - add-on extended warranties through retailer. Product is the mass-market version of the main line products (ie. 1082=3802). Possible (I would say probable) decontenting of this product compared to main line.

Choice 3:

Unauthorized outlet channel - lowest price, no support from either outlet or factory. Outlet warranty possibly available at extra cost. No guarantee that warranty service will be provided by Denon (could by "fixed" by Ed's TV Repair).

Take a look in your wallet and in your heart and make your choice accordingly. The choices are there for everyone. Just because you are not enamored of the unauthorized outlet channel, why would you want to take that choice off the menu for everyone else?

As far as Denon's "good name", the folks savvy enough to even discover the unauthorized channel are certainly smart enough (or should be) to understand the economics behind this channel's pricing. In other words, the different channels provide EXACTLY the support appropriate for each channel's customers.

It's only when the customer doesn't understand what channel is appropriate for him (lack of self-knowledge) and acquires product via the "wrong" channel that conflict occurs. Bitching about pricing and/or support issues is sure to follow. KNOW THYSELF and all will be well.

Good luck.

Austin

 

[charles mix]

Choices:
1)Buy a Denon product at a internet price that I CAN afford, love the product, tell all of my friends, they buy products

2)Go to one and only local Denon dealer and covet the product I can not afford, buy something that I am not crazy about, don't say anything to my friends. Never buy Denon because I can not afford it.

3)Buy the exact same product with different number on the front from a Sears type store and love the product, but spend my time wondering why they sell the same product at almost twice the price to other people, tell my friends I am confused about what Denon is doing

Your right it is about choices.

 

[Phil Mays]

Yup, I agree totally with choices.

I just wonder if it serves the producer of a certain product in the long run to supply non-warrantied product to the consumer. If something were to happen I doubt the consumer will realistically look at things the way you discribe (and I agree) them.

Franchises place standards in place so they will be in business tomorrow. Certainly I do not suggest that Denon will not be in business tomorrow, however, they may decide they would be better served in the long run to offer warranties for all their "A stock" product. Afterall if it is "A stock" then it is representitive of their best product at that price point and sealed it by placing their name on it.

Back in the 70's Toyota pushed service (regular oil changes, etc) so their cars would last longer. They didn't build a better car, they recognized the importance of keeping a car in good repair. I do not suggest cars and audio are the same in the least, however, proven business practices work no matter what you sell, be it widgets.

By the way I am a happy camper with Denon as well as Onkyo and other product. I become loyal by how the company stands behind their product.

 

[AustinKW]

And your friends tell you that nobody at Sears had a clue about how the sub peak-level setting worked. And you told them "go to HTF and do a search - you'll find out". And they did and they did. And then it dawned on you that the Sears folks only flog this stuff, they don't support it.

Austin

 

[AustinKW]

C'mon Phil. Tell me how ANYONE can unwittingly end up with unwarranted Denon product. All I'm hearing is bitching that people can't buy warranted Denon products at the same price as unwarranted ones. You know there really IS something to that old saying about free lunches!

Austin

 

[charles mix]

WOW! Did not know I could covet my way up! I covet KRELL, let me get another job, sell the wife and kids, and the car and then maybe I can afford a two year old unit from my local dealer
What does the knowledge of the salesman/woman (see I am PC), have to with the confussion of why Denon makes two identical products under different number badges? Maybe you can help. Are the 1082/3802 (for example) made in different locations? Do they use differed parts? Are they different in anyway? So why the different warranty and different price? This is the confusion to which I refer.

 

[AustinKW]

Charles,

I'm going to try once again to explain this.

Denon does NOT make identical products under different "number badges". Denon makes totally different products which just happen to have all their electronics in common.

The product you refer to as the 3802 is distributed through an Authorized Dealer network, members of which are contractually obligated to provide support to purchasers of the product. The 3802 carries a 2-year warranty from Denon.

The product you refer to as the 1082 is distributed through mass-market merchandisers such as Sears. It is also available to internet sellers for resale to end users. The sellers of this product are NOT obligated to support it in any way. The Denon factory IS obligated to support the 1082 under the terms of its 1-year warranty.

Denon sources these two DIFFERENT products to serve two DIFFERENT markets. Denon's market is not you or me. Rather, Denon must make its products attractive to ITS customers - the Authorized Dealers and the mass-marketers.

These two very different customers have very different approaches to reselling (retailing) the products they purchase from Denon. One charges full retail (or close to it) and closely supports the end user cradle to grave. The other simply plunks the box down, takes the end user's credit card and pushes him out the door with his new "baby" - never to see him again.

Since the Authorized Dealer has high overhead costs, he must have some "extras" attached to the product in order to successfully sell the product at the MSRP. Factory advertising of the 3802, factory-sponsored review samples of the 3802, trade shows showing off the 3802 and a 2-year warranty on the 3802 are the extras.

The mass-marketer (think Best Buy), has no need of these extras and has a prime interest in "bundling" its own profitable products with the Denon 1082. It sells extended warranties and therefore wants the factory to provide a short warranty period. Furthermore, it wants the ability to push the product on its customers as it sees fit, so it requires little or no factory advertisement. Just the brand, ma'am.

Do you understand how this system works, now?

Denon is playing the different strokes for different folks game. As are the Authorized Dealers and mass-marketers. The end result is more product sold through channel that target different end users and reinforce the Denon brand.

Austin

 

[charles mix]

Yah I have always understood. Thanks for talking down to me though. I know how the system works. I also know how everbody does the same thing with there products, mostly the car companies (lower line). But whether I buy a Crysler Town and Country or Plymouth Voyager I still get a warranty, even if I buy it used. Since I am to stupid to get the concept, I will shut up know........

 

[Bill_D]

Since the Authorized Dealer has high overhead costs, he must have some "extras" attached to the product in order to successfully sell the product at the MSRP.

I cannot think of another product where the Predators consistently expect the Prey to pay list. I guess I just live in the wrong city because the B&Ms around here cloacal openings. Don't ask look it up.

The elitist attitude of the Dealers around here is what pushed me to un-authorized dealers. I love driving up to their stores in my beat up grocery cart, aka a dented up Ford Ranger, only to be ignored. Then returning in my Rover to expose the hypocrites.

Just because one refuses to pay a price does not mean it is an affordability issue.

 

[Jamey F]

Just because one refuses to pay a price does not mean it is an affordability issue.

EXACTLY!!! I went to THE major local dealer in my half of the state for many of the top brand names. I saw the Pioneer elite HDTV, Mitsubishi HDTV, and wanted the out of stock Toshiba. Only because I had purchased a product before, I was sent an invitation to attend a special pricing event. Well, they claimed it would be anyway. I drove over an hour to get there to find out they didn't mark down stuff much at all. I told my personal sales person I would settle for the Mitsu HDTV at the "sale" price posted, if he threw in the extended warranty. I explained I could get the Toshiba I wanted (that he didn't have in stock) with an extended warranty delivered to my door for hundred's less than he was offereing the Mitsu without the extended warranty. Another guy was listening in on the conversation, and he said he would get one too as long as the extended warranty would be included. He offered the big sales pitch of 0% finacing for 2 years, but I told him I had plenty of credit, and I wanted to pay immediately (cash was an option). I needed a better value to justify spending that much more than online. Two sets, less desirable product, higher price than online, and they refused. I went back a couple of weeks later and thanked him because my Toshiba kicks that particular mitsu's a$$ in scaling abilities and picture quality. I'm sure he felt like a real jerk off then (expression was priceless), and I haven't purchased anything electronic of significant value at one of these local shops since.

When looking for a Denon 3803, I called a dealer where I purchased a 4.1 speaker setup (already had the center). He didn't even have one in that store. It would have to be brought up from his other store hours away. He wouldn't do it for less than $50 off full retail ($1149). I guess it was too much trouble. I won't be going back for more non-service from him. The only other local Denon dealer to me would also only sell the 3803 for $50 off unless I purchased it in a "system". Neither offered an upgrade plan, and neither had it hooked up where I could audition it. Who do they think they are?

Now, I'm sure many of you that deal with local dealers get very good service. I am envious of those who can get really good deals, and upgrade plans. But, I refuse to pay hundreds more than need be only because the dealer is local. I don't mind waiting a week for a product. I also, don't mind buying something without hearing it when I can ship it back at no cost to me if I don't like it. that gives me the best way to audition it (in my home). I've dealt with 3 local dealers, and I can't say I would want to buy from any of them, even if they were the low price. I'm sure Denon is loosing big-time in the eastern half of North Carolina, because there isn't an option for a credible local dealer (except maybe right on the coast...too far away). At least they aren't listed on Denon's website.

 

[Todd Hochard]

You know there really IS something to that old saying about free lunches!

But, Denon is selling product at the same price to distributors, based on unit volume, regardless of what type of dealer ultimately ends up selling it. So, for them, it IS a free lunch.
I've bought a few pieces (maybe 4 of the 15) from unauthorized channels, precisely because I don't need the "fluff" the boutique provides- no hand holding, I am a longtime Denon-loyal customer. These have all been "A" stock, new, unopened units. In fact, according to the sticker, the last piece (my DVD player) was short-shipped to me from Denon's warehouse! Knowing this, if I needed warranty after 30-60 days, I'd call Denon. I'd expect to get it. If I got fluffed off, I'd remind them of my loyalty over the years, which have resulted in MANY purchases by others, and kindly ask them if they'd wish me to change my opinion, over getting an item with their name on it repaired under warranty. I think they'd see it my way.
I once had a spat with AT&T over some trumped-up calling card bills. Under no circumstances, even after calling and writing the Office of the President, would they credit these charges to me ($67 for 16 minutes of calls state-state). I then made it my mission to seek out 25 people with AT&T long distance, and 25 people with AT&T Wireless (some had both, some did not), and sold them on switching. I then wrote back to the office of the President two months later, with the names and phone numbers of those customers I got to switch, along with the original letter, to make clear why.
"Don't make me angry- you wouldn't like me, when I'm angry."
I don't want their protected dealer network. I just want their product.

 

[TomH]

Can someone please explain why there is more new, factory sealed, Denon product in the hands of "non-authorized" dealers than "authorized" ones?
I am surprised that "authorized" dealers stand for it.
Tom