how low can u go?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by MichaelAngelo, Nov 8, 2002.

  1. MichaelAngelo

    MichaelAngelo Stunt Coordinator

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    I have two 15 inch square Solobarics I am using for HT/home -
    LOTR, here I come !!!
    Solobaric S15L5
    qts .60
    qms 11.40
    qes .63
    Vas 227L
    fs 22.2
    spl 87.6 ( also seen 91 db listed as spl, but it seems 87 is more likely)
    PE 750w cont, 1500peak
    BL 24.7
    dia 15 " square, ~16.6round
    SD 1056cm2
    xmax 15.5
    RE 7.7
    Le 7.57
     
  2. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    To get good extension, I'm showing a 250L (8.77ft^3!) tuned to 20Hz as a good alignment. This gives you an F3 of 20Hz with 110dB SPL. But that's just for one driver. You'd have 17ft^3 worth of enclosure for both drivers. And that's just too damn big for my tastes.
     
  3. MichaelAngelo

    MichaelAngelo Stunt Coordinator

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    thanks Brian for the response. I was hoping someone would model this speaker, as winisd is my only s/w prog. I have an 8 ft enclosure, 6" port is removable, have tried 10 in, 24, 36, and 48 lenghts. The sub seems to *really* like big enclosures, far larger than what Kicker recommends. Thus the exp with an iso in the 16 ft enclosure. But it doesn't seem, better,if thats the right word, than each in sep enclosures. (1 in the 16ft and 1 in the 8ft,usu tuned to 14-16 hz). Stuff like U-571,etc,incredible,have to got thru now and remove stuff that will fall off shelves, etc.

    I ran the enclosures sealed too and they sounded great, but I don't have the power to run them that way. (Once, since their DVC design, I ran a PE amp to each VC of one in the 16 footer. Wife IMMEDIATELY went off lol)

    well thx again for response

    curious about PR with these drivers....

    Its an addiction....
     
  4. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    And what did those drivers cost you? You could get equivalent performance or better using a Dayton DVC 15" driver in a 5-6ft^3 enclosure. The car audio drivers are WAY overpriced.
     
  5. MichaelAngelo

    MichaelAngelo Stunt Coordinator

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    Brian,
    I got them for ~180.00ea,for my lil ext cab ranger. Then,I see that optimum box is huge for these, plus I dont have the amp ( a crummy Boss 250x2). A friend traded me 2 12 inch square solobarics he had, one was new in box, for a Velodyne CT-120 I had. So
    i end up with 4 square spkrs- 2x15, and 2x12.
    The 12s are in my truck right now, too lazy to build a proper box for it, and knowing I need a better amp for it doesn't exactly light a fire lol. So they are in a 1.2 cu ft box I got at Wal-mart, for a 12 round, cut it square, and mounted the pair in an isobarik clamshell. I plan to build a better box for them, IF they stay in the truck, maybe 3-4 cu ft per sub. Id rather sell them, put the 15squares in the truck, and build two H/T subs based drivers for home use, not car audio.
    These subs model extremely well in WINISD, although I realize thats not everyuthing. But I modeled the Maelstrom in WINISD and with that fs (32??) it came up a bit short. I really haven't found a driver yet that models as well, shivas and tempests may not be enuf for me. I read the thread on the Tumult, Whew, and my only issue is the power required, but Jon seems to be working on an amp that'll solve that [​IMG] I have just begun loking for Dickasons book, I dont understand Linkwitz too well.
    Trying to build subs that will reproduce down to 15, even 10, without over-emphasising the 40,50 and up freqs.
    I know this sounds disjointed but I'm no EE,
    thanks for all the help,
    Mike
     
  6. Dan Hine

    Dan Hine Screenwriter

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  7. MichaelAngelo

    MichaelAngelo Stunt Coordinator

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    Dan,
    just d/l Winisd Pro. am entering specs as per Kickers website.
    Stand corrected on the Maelstroms FS. Where'd I get 32hz????

    I have a 20x10 hobby bldg that I'm doing this in- HT too. With both 15s and both 12s, I can get a semblance of the pressure that you feel in cars. I guess I want to feel the infrasonics, like in U571, or LOTR, or certain music, without increasing the volume across the board.

    Yes, I believe that 15.5 xmax is one way....

    edit: Just ran the 12's in the 8 ft box isobarik--box is plenty big, so no real improvemnent over 1 in the box. (had to make an mdf adapter to go from 15 to 12!) Have two el cheapo 100 watt(yeah right) amps, one to ea voice coil. These amps were for a KLH 8inch home sub, bought 2 for a buddy too cheap too pass up at 59 each, I ended up with them. So, 2 KLH 100 watt amps trying to push a 12 sq solo.The voice coils on the 12 are 2 ohm: so far, no prob from the drop in impedance. Wonder what the output would be-rated 100 watt into 8 ohms? Also, is there a way to change the built in infrasonic filter, or otherwise modify the preamp end of these amps?
    at top it says S100ETH
    at bottom is CRus (the "r" is backward)
    with the number E205870


    thanks for the responses, and any help offered. Many thanks to you all.
    Mike
     
  8. MichaelAngelo

    MichaelAngelo Stunt Coordinator

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    Ok, I may get personalized plates -- I EAT LOTR
    near the beginning, when the kings son cuts off the fingers and then a pull away shot and a big WHOOOOSH, um, uh,
    its the worst addiction/obsession/hobby anyone could have lol,
    2x15" sq solobarics, mounted isobarik, 16cu ft box, 2x6" vents 48" long, the vents now protrude about halfway, I have yet to properly brace them internally, they'll be hidden (almost) when finished.
    I want another one just like it [​IMG]
    thanks to the group for all the help and info - you guys are great!
     
  9. AaronWeigand

    AaronWeigand Auditioning

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    I'm sure you realise this but those subs arent doing anything with 100 watts. They dont start moving any air till you get a kilowatt into them. Big motor structures, no sense playing with anything until you can actually move some air. Snag a friends car amp (I have an RF 800a2 that tested at 1115w) and it wouldnt be enough to power that sub in my car ('88 Mustang hatch). Get some more oomph, I dont think the size of it is doing you much good either, it doesnt need to be that big, 4 cubes would probably be just fine and I doubt you would notice much of a difference.
    I guess you are pretty much just toying around at this point which is totally understandable though [​IMG]
     
  10. Dan Hine

    Dan Hine Screenwriter

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  11. Dave_Gib

    Dave_Gib Stunt Coordinator

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    Uh, I did 146 dBs on the dash at 34Hz
    in an 8 cu.ft. ported box with $467 worth of subs and a $300 amp
    subs have a 5 year warranty, amp has lifetime.
    how much are those L7's?
    I'll take those subs out of my car and use them in my my HT when I can get a good/cheap amp for them, I still havent found one[​IMG]
     
  12. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Dave,

    Please forgive me, but I fail to see how your post relates to this discussion.
     
  13. MichaelAngelo

    MichaelAngelo Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi Dan, Aaron and Brian.
    The 15" squares are powered by Parts express 250 watt amps.(modded for a 12hz corner)The DVC on the Solos are 4 ohm, i wire them to give a 2ohm load, (have run them like this for 6 mos on the PE amps with no prob!!! PE says 180watts into 8 ohms, 272w into 4 ohms, wonder what 2ohms power is???) Anyway, the lil 100 watt amps are powering a 12" Solo in an 8 ft box, tuned to 24 hz, vent is chageable, one 100w amp per voice coil. Soon to get another PE plate amp!
    The 15" Solos are clamshell isobarik on a 16 ft braced MDF box, with 2 6" PVC 48 inch ports, should give a 14 hz tune. Yes Dan, thats why in another post I wrote I EAT LOTR !! the scene at the beg, when the kings son cuts the fingers off and the ring fallls, theres a camera pullback up high and at the same time a deeeep Whooosh- scary. The castle flyby is incredible, the horses running by close,when the ring falls, the depth charges in U-571, my only complaint is theres only certain hours of the day I can "listen" (crank it)- the houses in my neighborhood are kinda close. Im thinking of lining my 20x10 hobby bldg with a layer of 3/4 plywood or MDF on the walls-- to help not bother the neighbors so much, or my wife, bless her, who has tolerated all this. Its just paneling now,with insluation, would a layer of MDF or Plywood on the walls help?
    Mr Janowitz (sp) was talking about poss another sub amp being developed, may wait for that, or, may put a PE amp on ea VC of the 15" Solos, that'd be 272 per vc, 540 per speaker, (or is the PE amp putting out a bit more at 2ohms??).The 12, tuned to 24, should be okay with one PE amp, its VC are 2 ohm ea. (Dont ask why I got different imps on the VCs), if not another would bump it to 540.

    I have the remaining 12" in a 1.2 cu ft box, yes cabin gain makes it feel very strong, I'd only like to get to 3 or 4 feet in the truck I dont want to kill all my space.
    I think Dan mentioned over-excursion, these subs are rated at 750watts RMS. 1500 peak, and with a 250 watt plate amp i can make one come close in that big box.Hoffmans law again,box size compromises power handling, but boy, the excursion, and low hz, are worth it.

    So the 16 iso box handles sub-20 hz stuff, and the 8 footer will handle 20-up.
    1812 overture hehe
    the heartbeat at the beg of Dark Side of the Moon
    thanks for all the responses
    as always, looking for more....

    18" Brahma?
    18L7" ?
    Multi-Tumulti?
     
  14. Dave_Gib

    Dave_Gib Stunt Coordinator

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    Brian,

    well he asked in the post subject "how low can u go" so I answered, and the car audio subs being way overpriced, well its like anything you have to do research. I'm with ya on the 15" Dayton suggestion.
     
  15. Dan Hine

    Dan Hine Screenwriter

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  16. MichaelAngelo

    MichaelAngelo Stunt Coordinator

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    Gentlemen,

    I hope this post wasn't taken as a "look what I can do!!' post. I WAS a bit excited, forgive me. I realize these car audio subs aren't ideal for home use, and was looking for something that would perform similar in a home environment. However, I am using these subs to play with diff alignments.
    Dan, I need to find the point at which excursion of driver is not worth the drop in power handling. Yeah, while I'm doing all this , my buddies into car audio are giving me all sorts of advice, along the lines of "take the air cleaner off-she'll run faster!" that sort of thing.
    The car subs aren't badly priced, you have to know where to buy. Got the 15 squares for 183.00. I would like something with more sound quality. The daytons are interesting, but I'm leaning towards the Brahmas, an 18" version is expected, or a couple Tumults. Maelstrom would be fun to play with too, anyone have pers exp with them?

    Does it make sense to try to dedicate subs forcertain octaves or prtions of them? I mean, one or two subs for infrasonic stuff, on for 20-to say 40, and let the mains go from there? Or does it create phase problems?
    Thanks again guys for taking the time to read this and respond.
    Dave, Im using 15 L5, 183.00 ea. 12L5, 134 ea.
     
  17. Dave_Gib

    Dave_Gib Stunt Coordinator

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    it's alright man, I just measured the SPL in my car the day I posted that, I was a little eager to tell anybody about it, did 154 with the driver door open [​IMG]
    why waste your money on an 18" Brahma, don't get me wrong it'll probably be a great sub, but you already got 2 15" L7's, for the cost of getting the brahma, you could get 2 more, so you could have 4 15" L7's or 1 18" brahma, I'd take the L7's anyday
    I've been looking at some pro sound amps that would give my HT project subs a couple of thousand watts for not much money. I haven't found much help in finding a big cheap meat & potatoes amp for my subs, somebody here told me plate amplifiers, yeah right, I'd have to buy 8 of them.
    I'd say 4 of the L7's, ported enclosure, tuned to 20 Hz or so, but before you buy more subs, you need to decide on amplifier power, are those L7's dual 4, or dual 2?
     
  18. Dan Hine

    Dan Hine Screenwriter

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  19. MichaelAngelo

    MichaelAngelo Stunt Coordinator

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    OK, in Jan, Kicker is supp. to be comin out with an 18 inch version of the Square. 5k watts cont., 10k peak.

    woof.

    I would think that the Brahma would be better at sound quality, and as good as or better in SPL, than the L7.

    Dan, thank you for the heads-up in QSC amps--may be better than the plate amps?
     
  20. Dave_Gib

    Dave_Gib Stunt Coordinator

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    I don't understand, what are you looking for MichaelAngelo? If you already have 2 of the 15 L7's, are they not loud enough, or low enough, or both, for $360 you would have 4 of the L7's, having experience with 12" versions of both drivers, I can't see how you would consider it a toss up.
     

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