How long until there are digital connections for SACD/DVDA players? DVI vs Firewire? (1 Viewer)

[james e m]

I don't really know too much about thses subjects, so I'm sorry if this has been covered before. I know the use of analog connections with SACD and DVDA players is to stem piracy, but is there an end in sight? Also will the SACD or DVDA players with the digital connections sound better than the ones with analog connections?

Also, what's the deal with the DVI vs. Firewire debate? Is there any timetable for the decision on that? What technology should I be "rooting" for? IEEE 1394?
Thanks!
James

PS I have no idea why my thread was posted 4 times.

 

[Michael Reuben]

PS I have no idea why my thread was posted 4 times.

Me neither, but I fixed it.

M.

 

[jeff lam]

I too have been wondering this. I also wonder about why a special DVD-A player is needed to get multichannel music. What's the difference between the multichannel audio on DVD's through a digital cable and the multichannel audio from a DVD-A player though analog cables. Is there really a sonic difference because the DTS DVD of the Eagles sounds pretty good to me.

I guess I'm just asking why they just don't keep things just the way they are and just use the standard DVD player with a digital cable to play multichannel audio the same as a video DVD without the video instead of go to all the trouble to make special players and such.

 

[james e m]

Jeff I have been wondering the same thing as you have. I want to say that I've heard that DVDA is even better than regular dts and DD sound mixes, but I could be wrong.
James

 

[Thomas_Berg]

yes, the sound quality on DVD-A is higher than in standard DD/DTS recordings. check the forum FAQ (link is in Vince Maskeeper's sig) for a more in-depth explanation.

 

[jeff lam]

But is the quality difference worth the extra cost and trouble of getting a new player capable of DVD-A, 3 sets of analog cables, bass management worries, etc.???

 

[Pete Jennings]

Jeff, in my opinion, no. Give it a couple of years and everything will finally fall into place... until then, let them have their fight.
Pete

 

[John Kotches]

Here's a more meaningful explanation of the difference.

It all boils down to bandwidth.

Consider DD, delivered with a bandwidth of 448kbits/second for all 6 channels of data. Input rates vary, but can be as high as 24bit/48kHz. Compression of this datastream exceeds 10:1, and the compression is lossy. This means that input to the front end Dolby Digital decoder doesn't equal the output of the Dolby Digital decoder in your receiver/processor.

DTS, can be delivered with a maximum bandwidth of 1.5mbit/second. Maximum encoder input is 24bit/96K. Compression of maximum input is a little less than 10:1, with the more common input of 24/48K being in the vicinity of 5:1. Again,

Both DD and DTS employ a variety of strategies to determine which information is lost. Much of it is based on psychoacoustics and our tested perceptual abilities. However, neither is perfect.

In comparison to either DVD-A or SACD, these two algorithms simply don't match up -- the more modest the system, the less difference you will hear. That being said, it can be quite daunting for a "normal person" to set up.

There are standards that are getting closer to market, but I suspect it will be 1 to 2 years before we see them in widespread usage.

You have to decide how much you value the performance improvement (and it is there).

No one can dicatate to you your own value equation.

Regards,

 

[jeff lam]

I understand this but we should at least be given the option to play DVD-A discs in our standard DVD players through our digital cables. Even though we have some loss in quality we can still get multichannel music without buying new gear. For those that need the absolute best, they can go with the new players and new cables to achieve the best sound with the highest bamdwidth.

 

[james e m]

Thanks for the info guys, I appreciate your input. To get back to my original post, is there a time table for the digital connections between the player and the receiver? Also can someone give me a thumbnail version of the DVI vs. Firewire debate?
Thanks!
James

 

[GordonL]

From an article posted at High Fidelity Review on the recent gathering of hardware and software manufacturers at Dolby Labs on Aug 9th

The digital interface question brought no new answers, as panel members danced around particulars but re-assured us that a digital connection was coming “sooner than later”. Since the IEEE-1394 connection has already been settled on, one attendee asked why it was taking so long to go from the current version 0.9 of the protocol to a usable v1.x. “If you think the music labels are paranoid, you should see the movie studios!” came the reply. As had been hinted at before, the digital interface will carry DVD-Audio and Video content. And it is this video part that is really holding things up: even if the music industry were completely satisfied with a digital connection scheme, it would have to be the movie industry that would have to sign off on the interface before it would be ready to go. And in order for that to happen, the movie studios would have to be absolutely, positively, assured that their precious digital video content would be protected. The whole discussion made it seem like the fact that movies are available on DVD is nothing short of a minor miracle, especially in this day and age of CD-R, MP3, DeCSS and Macrovision busting. There had been talk of implementing a partial interface, one that would discard the video data and process only the audio, but it was felt that it would be best to have a completed audio/video interface: something that would not only handle DVD, but would also deal with DTV and other digital audio/video looming on the horizon.

 

[Justin Lane]

I understand this but we should at least be given the option to play DVD-A discs in our standard DVD players through our digital cables. Even though we have some loss in quality we can still get multichannel music without buying new gear. For those that need the absolute best, they can go with the new players and new cables to achieve the best sound with the highest bamdwidth.

Jeff,

When it comes down to DVD-A, almost every disc also contains a DD/DTS track as well as the DVD-A version. This allows you to play a multi-channel mix on any DVD player, albeit at a lower quality then the true DVD-A version. This means you can play DVD-A in a standard player through a digital connection.

J

 

[Cary P]

I understand this but we should at least be given the option to play DVD-A discs in our standard DVD players through our digital cables. Even though we have some loss in quality we can still get multichannel music without buying new gear.

Jeff,

I believe you CAN listen to most DVD-A discs on standard DVD players. Most, if not all, DVD-A's include a Dolby Digital multi-channel mix that can be passed through the digital output. Some include DTS mixes as well. Although I don't have a DVD-A player as of yet, I do own a few DVD-A's that I listen to this way on my old Samsung DVD player.

What I would like to see are more DVD-A's with 192kHz/24bit 2 channel tracks. That would enable one to listen to the hi-rez 2 channel track through just 2 analog cables on a DVD-A player, while continuing to use the digital output for DD and DTS multi-channel mixes. Like a lot of people, I'm not willing to invest and hassle with 6 analog cables just to hear a hi-rez multi-channel mix, especially for back catalogue material that was mixed for two channels to begin with.

Cary

 

[jeff lam]

Cool, I didn't even know that. Maybe I'll have to look into some DVD-A discs now. What about SACD? Same deal???

 

[Justin Lane]

Cool, I didn't even know that. Maybe I'll have to look into some DVD-A discs now. What about SACD? Same deal???

Not all SACD will play in standard CD players. Some are hybrid discs which can be played in both standard and SACD players, unfortunately the majority of the discs put out by Sony/Columbia have all been SACD only requiring the purchase of a new player. On a good note, all of the upcoming Rolling Stones remasters will be Hybrid discs.

J

 

[Han]

As a side note, what you hear in the DD or DTS track may not be the same mix as the DVD-Audio track of the same disc. As evident in some reviews at www.highfidelityreview.com
the DD and/or DTS tracks are not just lower quality versions of the MLP track, but are sometimes mixed in a different way. I'm not sure what the point is to that, but it seems to sometimes be the case.