how long do dvd disks last

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by Mike<R, Jan 14, 2005.

  1. Mike<R

    Mike<R Agent

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    I own a lot of cdr's and they do not last long becoming scratched or full of holes. I want to know how long do dvd disks(+-r,+-rw) last before they become unplayable.
     
  2. ChuckSolo

    ChuckSolo Screenwriter

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    It could be decades or minutes depending on how a DVD is treated. If you always handle the disc by the edges and clean it in straight lines from the center out when they do need cleaning, they should last quite a long time. In fact they are supposed to last for at least 50 years or more.

    But discs can get screwed up in a hurry if you don't take care of them. If they get dropped or very dirty or scratched they will become unplayable in a hurry. They are not as fragile as tape media, but don't expect to walk or stomp on one and have it play. Most of the time when a player "eats" a disc, it's a mechanical problem where the disc tray won't open. I have never seen a disk rendered unplayable or damaged by the player itself and I've had DVD players since they came out commercially in 1997. Sadly we can't say the same for VCRs can we.[​IMG] BTW, most re-writeable DVD and CD (-RW/+RW) media claim at least 1000 erasures and writes before the disc starts giving read/write errors. Unless of course the media was flawed when you bought it.
     
  3. MikeOZ

    MikeOZ Auditioning

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    When DVD's become "scratched and full of holes" they won't play any better than your CD's. The lesson: don't allow the kids to use them as Frisbies. From what I read DVD-R's (and +R's) will last 30-100 years. DVD-RW will last not quite so long. The nice thing is, once in the digital format, the content should be easy to copy perfectly, so in 25 years you can make perfect copies onto whatever is the latest thing--probably a tiny solid state chip which holds 5000 movies!
    Assuming, of course, the world isn't under water in 25 years...
    I just started archiving all my precious VHS tapes with a cheap LITEON 5007 from Sears. It makes copies that look BETTER than the originals (I use only the HQ and SP speeds)and is simple to use. It cost me $150 at Sears.
    I waited not a moment too soon. One 25 year old tape will barely play.
     
  4. Doug Brewster

    Doug Brewster Second Unit

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    You guys are discussing one of my pet peeves:
    Taking care of recorded media.

    I'm an old man so I remember Vinyl record albums (still have them). They were frequently less than 20 minutes per side, so someone developed a "record changer" where you stacked them on top of one another and when one was through, the machine dropped the next one down on top and started playing it. Anyone who cared about their records refused to do this because it scratched them up and they were unplayable after a few cycles.

    Next audio and video cassettes came out. The good ones were manufactured with a lifetime guarantee. People left them sitting around on the table and in the heat and in the weather. They came with a box that most never used. Cassette recorders would get dirty and magnetized and people would never clean them, which resulted in the tape being eaten. They didn't last long this way.

    Next, CD's came out with the promise that they'd last a lifetime, if properly cared for. Most people I know can't even find the jewel case the things came in, or never put them in a jewel case if do their own burning. They lay around stacked on top of each other, have food set on them or get put in a "wallet". The wallets have sharp edged pockets, but people jam them in, which results in scratches. Then people complain that they don't last very long.

    Now DVD's.

    The moral of the story:
    Take care of them. They are soft plastic and not indestructible, but, if you keep them clean, protect them with proper packaging, and use common sense, they will probably be playable years longer than you are. They are not going to be unusable due to the way they're made. The only factor is what kind of treatment they get.

    Sorry for the rant. Told you I'm an old man. :b
    It's just that things keep getting more durable and people show less care. It doesn't make any sense to me, but I'm getting to the age when, soon, nothing will make sense to me. At that time, I hope I'll have a few memories jogged by recordings I've acquired and taken care of. It'll give me something to enjoy at the home, when they change my diapers and give me my medicine in apple sauce.
     
  5. ChuckSolo

    ChuckSolo Screenwriter

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    Doug, I just turned 50 and I've been there too. I NEVER bought those "automatic" turntables and endured the annoyance of my friends and family at having to change out and flip records on my audiophile single play turntable. It's funny, but I basically skipped 8 track and cassettes except for the recording of a record to play in my car. [​IMG] When CDs came out I was quite anal about them and yelled at people for putting their finger prints on them. I'm the same way with DVDs and absolutely will NOT lend out my collection for that reason, especially to households with kids. If someone wants to watch one of my DVDs I come with it.[​IMG] Sheesh, how old are you?
     
  6. Vader

    Vader Supporting Actor

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    Thank you Doug and Chuck!

    I could not have said it better....[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  7. Doug Brewster

    Doug Brewster Second Unit

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    ChuckSolo

    I'm 54. Never owned an 8 track, but did own a 4 track (which preceeded and was superior, though still not very good). I also owned a Nakamichi cassette deck, but, after having it "repaired" several times (and never fixed) replaced it with a decent Sony a few years ago. Seldom use it and it isn't as good as the Nak. Still have and occasionally listen to cassettes I recorded in the mid-70's.
    Also recently bought an entry level Music Hall (mmf 2.1) to replace my lousy Technics (bought so my kids could listen to it when the Phillips quit) which replaced my decent Phillips 212-A.
    I know this is all boring "old stuff", but it's better than long conversations about bowels and prostates.

    Re: loaning things:
    I don't do it. I make a copy, tell them it is my copy and ask them to destroy it when they're through with it. Some of them may not be through with it yet, but if it isn't returned I consider it lost. Next time I loan one, I have to make another copy.
    I LOVE DVD-Shrink. It makes good enough copies for loan. Even preserves 5.1 sound. If they need more than that, they can buy/rent the real thing.

    Derek Fulghum
    "...any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player."-- Roger Ebert

    I may need to kill myself. I'm becoming Roger Ebert.
     
  8. ChuckSolo

    ChuckSolo Screenwriter

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    Hey Doug,

    Well, we're pretty close to each other in age to remember that "golden era." I was over at my paren't house the other day and came upon some of my old albums.[​IMG] I found my old "Sgt. Pepper" album on the Capitol label and they still have an old Pioneer turntable. I put that disc on and man did it take me back. Even with the pops and crackles the sound was so great.

    I actually have a fairly decent setup. Lately I have been getting into the HI REZ audio provided by DVD-A and SACD. I just recently purchased "Tapestry" by Carol King in SACD and all I can say is WOW! It's amazing but, there are things that James Taylor is doing on the guitar in the background on songs like "So Far Away" and "You've Got a Friend" that I never noticed on the LP or CD versions. I purchased "How The West Was Won" by Led Zeppelin a couple of weeks ago and agin this DVD-A is just incredible in the sound reproduction. Being a guitarist myself, I was just blown away by stuff I had never heard on the King album before.

    Regardless of the complaints I keep reading about regarding my Samsung DVD HD814, especially the "black crush" issue, the ability to play SACD and DVD-A on it was well worth the $180.00 purchase price. It seems you are somewhat of an audio enthusiast too. Give SACD a try; it just blew my mind.[​IMG]
     
  9. Doug Brewster

    Doug Brewster Second Unit

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    Those "old " albums are worth some money. Sgt Pepper is worth more in Mono than Stereo, but you might want to investigate. Might pay for some additions to your SACD and DVDA collection.

    I am interested in expanding my audio system, but recently bought a VCR/DVDR to archive my collection of football games (1985-present) - mostly Dallas Cowboys. With that and planned renovations to the house, it will be awhile till I can afford more toys.

    My suggestion to you is to invest in a turntable. They are making a comeback and alot of independent labels are releasing to vinyl. You'd be surprised at how good they now sound if played through a decent turntable. I have heard things on some of my old records that I'd not heard before. Additionally they track albums I thought were too warped and beaten to play. I have a bootleg Beatles recording (no label, pieces from the "Let It Be" album) that had never sounded good on my old system. I played it on the new turntable. While still rough and dynamically challenged, it was much smoother and more enjoyable. The Music Hall I bought isn't terribly expensive. I got a really good deal on mine because it was a demo... Just a suggestion, and thanks for yours.
     
  10. ChuckSolo

    ChuckSolo Screenwriter

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    I have a friend that, get this, has an original "Meet the Beatles" album that is still covered in the original cellophane wrapper. It is in mono and on the old Capitol label and I believe he was given it as a gift back in 1964. He has never opened it and in fact doesn't like The Beatles since he has always been a die hard Rolling Stones fan. He offered to give it to me about a decade ago, but I refused saying it might be worth some money to him someday. I wish I had of taken it now.:b
     
  11. Doug Brewster

    Doug Brewster Second Unit

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    YIPES !!!

    This is an add from Ebay:

    MEET THE BEATLES / MINT CONDITION
    STEREO ST 2047
    CAPITOL RECORDS LABLE
    Starting bid: US $100.00
    Buy Now price: US $200.00
    THE VINYL IS EXTREMELY CLEAN
    THE COVER STILL HAS THE ORIGINAL SHRINK WRAP AROUND IT
    AND THE COVER IS IN FLAWLESS CONDITION
    (OF COURSE IT IS OPENED AND HAD BEEN PLAYED)

    That's not even mono and it's been opened.

    Currently, there is this one, with a current bid of $60 and a buy it now price of $100:

    MEET THE BEATLES
    CAPITOL ST 2047 (STEREO)
    RECORD: NEVER PLAYED
    COVER: NEAR MINT
    REASON FOR NEAR MINT COVER: IT WAS PROTECTED FROM THE AIR MAKING IT DISCOLOR BY KEEPING IT IN PLASTIC ALL THESE YEARS EXCEPT FOR THE UPPER RIGHT HAND CORNER WHICH HAS SLIGHT DISCOLORATION. THE REST OF THE COVER LOOKS THE SAME AS THE DAY IT WAS PURCHASED BRAND NEW IN THE 1960'S.
    THIS IS NOT AN ORIGINAL ISSUE BUT A LATER ISSUE FROM THE 1960'S. THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 1ST AND 2ND ISSUE IS THAT ON THIS ONE, ON THE BOTTOM OF THE LABEL, IT SAYS "MFD. BY CAPITOL RECORDS,INC.,A SUBSIDIARY OF CAPITOL INDUSTRIES,INC."

    Again, stereo and opened. There's another one (stereo and opened) for $100, and one for $179. Not all are being bid on.

    This ought to tell you what it's worth now:
    http://recordcollectorsguild.org/
     
  12. Aaron Reynolds

    Aaron Reynolds Screenwriter

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    To take this conversation even further off-topic, you turntable-owning Beatle fans should check out a band called The New Pornographers. Two really great albums, both available on vinyl. While I own both on CD, I purchased the first album on vinyl for my father-in-law's birthday and we listened to it on his lovely rig that includes a pair of vintage Monarch speakers that are seven feet tall. It sounded niiiiiiiiiice.

    And I found a mono Sgt. Pepper at a garage sale the other day, in playable shape, for 25 cents. Canadian.
     
  13. artBrogard

    artBrogard Auditioning

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    You guys really worry about your age, don't you? I'm 64 and my youngest child is 21 months. [​IMG]

    What's this about releasing things on vinyl again? That caught my attention. Why would they do that? The initial fidelity wouldn't be any better than high quality digital, surely, and the future fidelity (as the record ages) can only get worse.

    Is it just a fad thing or a niche market for those who love having a vinyl collection?
     
  14. Doug Brewster

    Doug Brewster Second Unit

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    Re: Why vinyl

    True, the channel separation is not as good, but if you listen to a decent turntable with a good high fidelity recording you (may) find it more "musical". For those who don't understand the term, it simply means "more like real musical instruments". For many years "audiophiles" complained that DVD's do not sound as warm or real as vinyl LP's played on good turntables. I didn't think I agreed with that because my turntable didn't sound as good as my DVD player. What I hadn't considered is that my turntable cost me around $200 and my DVD player was valued at $750 (long story, but it was a replacement sent by Philips for a CD player that cost me $240). Anyway, I bought this Music Hall with an upgraded cartridge and was amazed at how warm and rich it sounded when compared to my DVD player. Aural experience is in the ear of the beholder, but I now understand what the fuss was about before vinyl disappeared from most stores. I can't even imagine what an expensive turntable (and they can get downright ridiculous) would sound like.

    Fad?

    Perhaps. There are a number of independent (micro) record labels that have been developing in recent years here in the Pacific Northwest. I suspect they are elsewhere as well, but this has always been a haven for them. They have elected to press vinyl (don't really know why. Might be cost, but I can't imagine DVD's are less expensive than LP's). Since the music these labels produce is popular with the kids here, they have begun to discover older vinyl and that has led to more interest in vinyl. It isn't a raging trend, but is quietly catching on with an audience that had not shown interest since the development of audio cassettes.

    I will say that I know a few who are doing this and, again, it's because of the music that is available.

    "I'm 64 and my youngest child is 21 months."
    While I admire your enthusiasm, I've not had any "kids" living in my house for the past 9 years and I'm not unhappy with it. I am breaking into a cold sweat thinking about your situation, but that's just me. It's such a responsibility that I'd never wanted children...but would have had so much less joy in my life if I'd had my way. Congratulations...and I mean that sincerely. I think I have the energy, but not the inclination...that you do is a tribute to your positive attitude...or (and the next word is totally a joke) carelessness.[​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  15. John Whittle

    John Whittle Stunt Coordinator

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    Mike,

    Until you find out why you have the problem with the "cdr's" then stay away from DVDs. They won't last any longer than your cdrs/

    Once you solve your cdr problem then your DVDs will last just as long.

    People with scratchs and "holes" generally have a storage problem or handling problem. You can ruin discs other ways as well such as leaving them out in the sun all day in the summer, but again that's a storage problem.

    Quailty discs, properly cared for will last for quite some time.

    John
     
  16. artBrogard

    artBrogard Auditioning

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    I guess you've said it all in 'may find it more "musical"..' The word 'may' and the quoted "musical" being the operative words.

    Thinking about it I surmise that an analogue recording can contain far more information than a standard digital recording. I don't know. It would be interesting to hear from some sound engineers.

    I suppose there's a maximum responsiveness from the mechanical parts cutting the wax. And a maximum 'fine grain' or 'retainability-of-information' on the part of the wax.

    Which together boil down to how many simple lateral 'bumps' you can get in a certain distance of the groove. The frequency of the 'bumps' equals the frequency of the note generated. Is that right? That's how I understand it.

    So if the digital sampling is of a higher frequency than that - then the digital recording has all that information.

    So now the two recordings are equal.

    Can they play back equally well? Well, I think so, can't they? Where the vinyl media nudges a needle sufficiently to create a vibrational frequency to push the speaker the digital pulses do the same thing, don't they?

    I can see a difference there. Between each digital pulse there's a tendency for the speaker to relax back to status - to silence whereas there's nonsuch in the analogue media. i.e. we could say digital recording/playing is micro staccato. Whether we can distinguish this fact or not I dunno.

    From then on the digital must win. The finer points of the vinyl groove will be lost first as the needle friction grinds them away. No such thing will ever happen with the digital recording, will it? Eventually the vinyl will be a mere groove cut in the platter - only 'white' sound.

    I'd surmise it's all in the ear of the beholder... very subjective. And considering the joy we sometimes get from hearing on old favourite on a two dollar trannie it's probably right that it should be so.


    But the question of how long things last - that's very interesting. I'd like to know the answer. I don't think anyone has posted it yet. I have had floppy disks last for tend years. I still have them now. I would expect better than this from my CD's and I'd hope for better yet from DVD's.

    But what's the best? Paper! How virtually indestructable paper is, have you ever noticed? You can't even burn it often without great trouble.

    And digital media could be recorded on paper 1001100101000100110...... etc... The world's greatest music sounds recorded for all time on a sheet of paper! I think that's a pretty amusing thought.

    Then there'd be a problem of translation. Every list of bits is a list that makes sense only if you know the encoding method.

    I certainly would like to know the most permanent way of recording things available to us today - I'd like to keep my stuff that way - and that includes guaranteed future decoding!

    Children. Yes, you're right. Major hassle, etc. Not careless however, we knew what we were doing. We've just done it again in fact, another one due Oct/Nov. Irresponsible is what I often think. Irresponsible. But his mother is much younger than I and very, very happy with her son. She has a right to her life and her son. And the boy... when I look at him how could I say he shouldn't be?

    They are me, recorded for the future.... [​IMG]
     
  17. Doug Brewster

    Doug Brewster Second Unit

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    Art,

    Sounds like you have found the most long-lasting recording media...DNA.[​IMG]
     

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