How Good can a Front projector be

Discussion in 'Displays' started by DanielKellmii, Feb 22, 2004.

  1. DanielKellmii

    DanielKellmii Supporting Actor

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    Since I only care about watching movies in HiDef, I was thinking about going with a front projector. From what I read, some people are getting incredibly good resolution from front projectors. Is it as good as a HiDef TV? (Not including a CRT, I know those can't be beat.)
    Thanks.
     
  2. Leo Kerr

    Leo Kerr Screenwriter

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    realistically, apart from using a really good PC monitor, front projection is the easiest way to get true HD.

    TI is allegedly coming out with 1920x1080 DLP chips.

    JVC has Q-XGA D-ILA chips (2048x1536), and demoed a lab prototype QHD D-ILA projector (3840x2160.)

    I know you can get 1280x1024 LCDs (covers 1280x720[​IMG] I can't remember seeing a 1920x1080 LCD, though.

    Front projecting CRTs have been able to do high resolution since forever; aroung 1998 I was working with a 8" crt projector that claimed to be able to do 2400x2000 or thereabouts. (Maybe when it was new, but certainly not when I got to it...)

    Rear projectors... well, I'm never going to try and sell anyone a RPTV.

    Plasmas, many can support the 1280x720 mode. I know Samsung has introduced a monster that'll do 1920x1080.

    As for direct view CRTs sold on the consumer market, none are really HD. The largest shadow masks are something like 800x600. On the other hand, the best CRT direct views look really good, even though they're loosing huge amounts of the potential picture.

    Now, it's easy and relatively cheap to get an XGA projector. But they are sub-HD. I haven't priced a true SXGA projector recently, so I don't know where they are - but they will support true HD (1280x720) mode.

    Leo Kerr
    [email protected]
     
  3. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Video quality is more than just pixel count. And where are you getting movies in highdef? DVD is not high-def. Certainly limiting yourself to only movies in high def from say DVHS or WM9 will limit your movie viewing option to a ridiculously small number of movies.

    And CRT projector specs for input compatability(such as 2500x2000 on something like a Marquee) are wholly separate from resolving capability, which varies on setup, tube condition, etc.
     
  4. Garrett Lundy

    Garrett Lundy Producer

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    Maybe he has HD satellite (Voom! perhaps?). Maybe he's planning ahead for Blu-Ray, HD-DVD?

    Anyway, When used properly FP can yeild the best picture, especially with screen size. FP has been the movie industry standard for over 100 ya 'know.
    And a quality CRT FP is capable of true high-def (1920 x 1080) or better resolution! Full rez DLP, LCOS, & LCD are comparably very expensive, or at best 720p.
     
  5. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Certainly, as a CRT user, I still feel it's the benchmark, but again, realistically you can't hope to get 1080 resolved right on anything but well-setup 9inchers.

    And there are no comparable digitals to that (yet). There are some with the HD2+ units now to a high-end 8inch CRT, but IMO not equal yet, the nudge still goes to CRT after doing the shootout with a sharp 12k.

    But you're looking at spending close to or above $10K for one of those, versus a fraction of that for an 8in CRT which beats it in a dedicated theater.

    Again, video quality is a LOT more than just pixel count.

    Color accuracy, ansi contrast, on/off contrast, pixel packing with a digital, setup quality with a CRT, etc etc are things that seem often ignored around here in favor of sheer pixel count.
     
  6. Eldon.m

    Eldon.m Auditioning

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    i was on projector central and saw that the panny L500U has a max resolution of 1920x1080 and its an lcd projector (i think). the normal resolution was 1280x720. could someone clarify if this would do true hd or not. also, could somebody tell me the differences in resolution between 480p, 720p, and 1080p (when its more common).
     
  7. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    It's max is 720, that's the native panel resolution.

    It will downscale above that to the panel resolution. There are a fixed number of pixels on a fixed pixel device. That is the native panel resolution, you can't go any higher than that.
     
  8. Eldon.m

    Eldon.m Auditioning

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    so your saying that the max resolution (1920x1080) is the maximum input that it can downscale to 1280x720?
     
  9. DanielKellmii

    DanielKellmii Supporting Actor

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    Thanks for all the information. What I gather is that if I go the front projector route, I can get very high quality images if I buy a good projector and use it properly. Is that correct? I like the projector because it takes up less space. I don't watch a lot of TV, so that isn't my concern. Now I need to convince the wife.

    My guess is that it will cost 6K. 3K for the video and 3K for the jewlery.
     
  10. Neil Joseph

    Neil Joseph Lead Actor

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    Moved to displays
     
  11. ChrisTheg

    ChrisTheg Agent

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    You had one part right, that was about it costing AT LEAST 6000. But that's only for the projector. FP are awesome but you must spend more to get more when going to a FP. Those ones you see out there for under 5000 are crap and will never give you the quality your looking for.
     
  12. DanielKellmii

    DanielKellmii Supporting Actor

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    Would somebody out there please disagree with Chris....please...
     
  13. mark alan

    mark alan Supporting Actor

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    Consider it disagreed with. For under $2,000, you can get a front projector that is 90% as good as a $10,000 projector. 3-4 years ago, I would have agreed more with Chris.
     
  14. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    For 2K I bought a 20K CRT projector. Runco sells it for 30K.



    I agree with that.
     
  15. Guy Kuo

    Guy Kuo Supporting Actor

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    Chris, you never did get a chance to see my HT1000 setup. It's in a different configuration than the Sharp 11000 so despite its lower overall performance, it's able to best my NEC XG135LC on a LOT of material. It's not a machien for viewing Dark City, but on brighter stuff, it's rather shockingly good.

    Price wise a bit lower would be still okay. The NEC HT1000 is available under $5000 and produces are very nice picture as long as you don't ask to it to be too large an image. I'd bet if he came over and saw what my HT1000's picture looked like, he'd go home and spit on his TV. I'm sure you and I can sit an pick apart its picture, but for the majority of people, this will be pretty darned compelling and realistic an image.

    I can't vouch for it on a larger image. I'm using it for only a 58 inch wide image and viewing from 134 inches and using a Hoya FLD filter, but wow the picture is good. Certainly better than my old Sony D50 projector (7 inch CRT).
     
  16. NickSo

    NickSo Producer

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    This little jewel deserves the ol' [​IMG]
     
  17. DanielKellmii

    DanielKellmii Supporting Actor

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    So how did you manager that Chris?
     
  18. NickSo

    NickSo Producer

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    It was probably used... Used CRT's are GREAT values if you can find one with low usage...
     
  19. David WS

    David WS Stunt Coordinator

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    To try and answer your questions...

    The Panny L500u (gets great reviews, I'm ordering one as soon as my tax rebate check shows up) can accept a signal up to 1920x1080i and will scale it down to its native resolution of 1280x720p. It can accept a wide array of other resolutions but all will be scaled to its native resolution. As a fixed panel device, it will always scale the signal to its native display rez., unless it is being fed its native display rez. This is true for any LCD or DLP projector, they all must scale to thier native resolution. However, some do a better job of this than others, that's where you can get a better picture for you money.

    HDTV Resolutions = 1080p, 1080i, 720p.
    EDTV Resolutions = 480p (I belive 540p would fall here as well)
    SDTV Resolutions = 480i

    So yes, the panny is a HD projector.

    As far as differences.. The larger numbers with the p's are generally better. For fast moving images like sports, many people suggest that the 720p rez is better because it reduces motion "jaggies" that interlaced images tend to create.
     
  20. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    But Guy, that thing has an even slower color wheel than the sharp 12k, and in a dark room that was barely acceptable. The rainbows on the ht100 would drive me absolutely bananas. And 58inches is pretty small, if you run a CRT that small it will also look pretty amazing, cept for color shift.

    IMO, the HD2+ are the only ones that are really getting good, for 58inches, I'd probably go for an RPTV rather than the ht1000 anyway.

    Guy: ditch that faroudja, I still can't see how the XG is getting bested by an ht1000. close with the sharp, but I still think something is funkified with what you're feeding your XG if everyone liked the sharp more in the first shootout.

    Considering you can get a mint XG for 5K, IMO with an HTPC it's still the better buy. A non-LC would be 1500 less than that. Still no comparison, IMO, if you attempt to project anything but a tiny picture with something like an HT1000.

    Report back when you've ditched that faroudja 3000 [​IMG]
     

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