How do you start a "Service" in W2k?

Discussion in 'Computers' started by Jay H, Mar 19, 2004.

  1. Jay H

    Jay H Producer

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    BACKGROUND: Trying to automatically start the Messenger service in W2k. Ya know, the service that allows you to Net Send other folks in the LAN. Our IT thinks we should be either socially inept or wants us to flood the email servers with useless chatter.

    [edit: afterthought, I should state that I'd like to put something in my startup folder to automatically start the Messenger service, I know how to manually start it...

    OK folks, I figured out how to update the registry automatically to change the setting of Messenger to "automatic", however, it doesn't take into effect unless I reboot it. However, I know when I'm in services.msc, I can get windows to hotstart it rather than at startup by hitting the "apply" button and then manually starting that service. Is there an automated way of doing this via a command or program. I can manually start messenger via the simply DOS command "net start messenger" but that apparently, wont start the service if it's not started at startup and gives me an error.

    I was hoping not to use VBScript or so as I haven't used it, but I am now wondering if I can avoid that or not.

    Jay
     
  2. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Moderator
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    Have you tried going to the Services applet and right-clicking on Messenger and selecting "start"? (Not sure if this is how it works in W2K, it does in XP).
     
  3. Jay H

    Jay H Producer

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    Hi Patrick, yeah that works but the problem is that our IT dept (CSC) likes to play with our setup without our permission . I hate that, if I wanted to disable Messenger, I will do it myself. So doing that would only work til the next time I shutdown and restart as CSC's Security Policy is most likely modifying my registry and not loading Messenger service upon startup. The first thing I did was put a file that did a "Net Start Messenger" in my startup file, but apparently, that doesn't work if Windows isn't loading the necessary components at startup.

    So, unless I wanted to do what you suggest everytime I turn my PC on, I was trying to find an automated way via scripting.

    I found a way to automatically update my registry to change the value from "disabled" to 'Automatic' but that didn't automatically load the components, I would of had to restart or at the least log out and log back in. Not the best solution.

    I have just researched using VBScript called Service.VBS and the DOS command CSCRIPT to run it with a bunch of options. And my initial test is that it works!

    CSCRIPT C:TEMPSERVICE.VBS M AUTOMATIC N MESSENGER
    NET START MESSENGER

    That little script will actually seem to load the messenger components upon demand, rather than at startup... So simply saving that into a .bat file and sticking it in my Startup folder seems to be doing the trick.

    I will have to see the next time CSC trys to stick it's grubby hands where it shouldn't be...

    Jay
     
  4. AllanN

    AllanN Supporting Actor

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    Jay, I hate to sound like a prick here but you should respect the decisions of your IT staff. They have reasons for doing what they are doing. One of the things that annoys us(IT Staff) the most is users that think they know what they are doing, trying to undermine our security procedures. That computer is not yours, it’s the companies. They pay the IT staff to make configuration decisions not you. Also the messenger service has to be running on the system you are sending a message to. So just because you turn yours on it does not make net send any more useful. Depending on what your company security policy is your actions may be viewed as malicious and may get you in trouble or worse.
     
  5. Jay H

    Jay H Producer

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    When our IT dept. starts actually providing a service to me, I'll start respecting their policies. [​IMG] So far, they have done nothing but make things worse from removing the laser printers and going to combined networked copier/printers to taking 3+ weeks for getting a simple file from backup. They also have the draconian policy of "you will use what we give you whether you like it or not". They support Outlook, I can't stand Outlook, they support IE, I prefer NS. So, the couple of us here who use Eudora (IMAP) or PC-PINE do our own thing, not that I expect support from them anyway, but you should of heard the guy when he found out I was using Eudora... I thought he was going to have a heart attack. So, if they are not going to take input on policies that affect the users, then I have no problem taking action to what affects my productivity.

    Plus, net send is rather benign, our firewall handles spam and I'd rather not waste email space in talking to employees in the other plant "Hey, let's go to lunch" or "Is Frank in today?" so perhaps I'm doing them a favor... I only net send a couple people who will also get configured (of course).

    Jay
     
  6. Wayne Bundrick

    Wayne Bundrick Cinematographer

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    I agree with Jay, IT's job is to provide the employees with what they need. If IT denies them something they need for security reasons then it is IT's job to either make it secure or provide an alternative that is secure and suitable for the task. For example, if for some reason IT has a kingsized corncob inserted deep with respect to the Messenger service, then IT should set up an instant messaging server.
     
  7. Christian Behrens

    Christian Behrens Supporting Actor

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    Why not just Instant Messaging?

    -Christian
     
  8. Rob Gillespie

    Rob Gillespie Producer

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    Or just save the thousands of dollars it would cost to do that and tell users to pick up the damn phone instead.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Jay H

    Jay H Producer

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    Phone-what's that? I can still net send people when I'm on the phone on business... Multitask! [​IMG]


    Jay
     
  10. Rob Gillespie

    Rob Gillespie Producer

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    I can see it now. Picture your IT department...

    Call comes in.

    "Hey guys, new call. Who wants it?"
    "Yeah, OK, who is it for?"
    "That Jay H from upstairs"
    "Oh f**k, not HIM!"
    "Yeah, the guy who keeps changing everything"
    "Crap, he can go to the back of the queue."
    "OK - two week on hold?"
    "Yeah, great!"

    [​IMG]
     
  11. JohnVB

    JohnVB Stunt Coordinator

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    Rob,

    c'mon now. There's got to be a balance. You don't really know what Jay's workplace is like, so you can't reasonably defend the IT guys there. I've worked at a place where the IT dept made it harder to do our jobs.

    It was really crazy. They didn't buy licenses of MS Office. Instead they bought one license and it was installed on the Boss's computer. So, if we recieved an MS Word document from someone, we had to go ask the boss if he would kindly convert the document for us. Of course, the boss is often busy, so we'd have situations where irate customers are complaining about how slow we were to respond to them. (MS Word viewer hadn't come out yet at the time.)

    The software we had to use crashed on us all day long. And the guy would say, "I don't have a problem with it on my documents, you must be doing something wrong." Yep, what were were doing wrong is working on design documents over 30 pages. It worked fine on his 1-2 page memos. But he didn't care about our problem.

    Printing these documents was a nightmare too. One of my co-workers had pinned up one of his 40 page documents to his cubicle wall. The whole document had printed on one page.

    And we also had systems were we weren't allowed admin rights. Our accounts were limited. So when it came time to test the software we were making, we'd have to get on IT's list days in advance so he could login as the admin (we needed admin rights to test our software's install). The IT guy, of course was always way overloaded with stuff, so often he didn't get to it in a timely fashion. Once my boss had to threaten to have him fired, if he wouldn't come right away to get us set up so we could test.

    So, you see not all IT departments help the company, sometimes they hinder - not saying yours hinders.

    I agree that IT's job is very difficult, and I agree they should be concerned about security. I know they're being told to worry about security everywhere - from without and from within the company, and they're often given tasks that are in conflict with other tasks. Yet somenow IT must balance all this to have great security, obey software licenses and not hinder the work. IT's job is primarily to make the work run more smoothly rather than get in the way.

    The workplace I'm at now, is very different from what I described above. So, I know it doesn't have to be like it was at that former place of work.

    Ok back on topic:

    Jay,

    If IT has access to and modifies your registery and other system settings, I think you're SOL for having a service start automatically. I think you're gonna have to start it by hand.

    I don't know all that's going on at your workplace, but sometimes it is best to play by the "rules". You know, pick your battles. Is this hill worth dying on? Up to you.

    Cheers,

    - bones
     
  12. Rob Gillespie

    Rob Gillespie Producer

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    No, I appreciate that John. But the kind of activity Jay is talking about does nothing to help. Refusing to use an app because it doesn't do what you need it to is one thing, but to dump and install something else simply because it's not to your taste is quite another.

    The issue with security is quite another thing altogether though. Any user who compromises the security on a network, either by disabling the AV, having a password of 'password', installing their own (unknown) software, is a risk that everyone can do without. System security should come above all else - end of story, or everyone suffers.

    I'll give you an example. I look after anti-virus and patching deployment for a few big clients. One them - a huge logistics and transportation firm - refused to have a security policy. Users can do pretty much anything they like and laptops being taken home and used by their kids is not uncommon. There's over 120 different domains and workgroups to which we have access to less than ten. If a user needs a new PC, it doesn't go through acquisitions, they just go out to Staples and buy it.

    That network gets whacked by viruses on a regular basis. Code Red, Slammer, Lovgate, Blaster, Nachi - all brought the entire thing to a screeching halt in a matter of hours.

    Contrast that to another client. This company runs most of the UK's nuclear power stations so they have to be tight. Everything is locked down and controlled. Users can't even use floppy or CD drives without going through the appropriate channels and being authorised. The domains are tightly controlled with very intricate trust policies in place so nobody sees anything they shouldn't. Machine rebuilds are an absolute doddle. User permissions are a doddle and they never get virus infections - ever. It just simply doesn't happen. Downtime doesn't happen unless it's planned. It's one of the most enjoyable systems to work on because there are no unpleasant surprises caused by users who get too big for their boots. Users know exactly where they stand and appreciate the security aspect far more than being able to use Eudora or whatever.

    I see both sides of the fence where I work and know which side I'm happier on - and which side the users are most comfortable on and it aint['i] the sloppy side [​IMG]
     
  13. Jay H

    Jay H Producer

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    Rob,,, HAHAHAHA, you sure you're across the pond and not secretly where I work?

    Once I accidentally clobbered a file that I needed, took IT 3 weeks to even call me and ask me a question about it. At that point I was so pissed that I was kind of stringing them along, kind of answering their questions but not directly. At which point I eventually told them that I didn't need it anymore because I rewrote the entire module already. Felt good!

    Jay
     
  14. Rob Gillespie

    Rob Gillespie Producer

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    YOU delete the file and you expect THEM to sort it for you?

    Pheeshsh! [​IMG]
     
  15. JohnVB

    JohnVB Stunt Coordinator

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    Rob,

    Some more rambling thoughts.

    I certainly agree that IT practices need to match the needs of the environment. So the nuclear power station has very different security and IT needs than, say, the mail store down the street.

    When I read Jay's post, I didn't get the impression that his situation was all about email programs and browsers. IT doesn't need to go in and modify registry settings if they're just wanting people to standardize on certain programs.

    I'm not sure why IT would care much what programs he's using. Most email/browser security holes you hear about are on those very programs Jay's IT is wanting people to use. So I think it's not for security reasons. I think they just want everone to use the same thing. If this is the case, a good solution might be for them to say, "if you've got outlook we'll support problems with it. If you've got something else, you're on your own."

    I s'pose if it were me, I'd just use outlook and IE if that's what IT wanted. I prefer mozilla to IE, but I don't think it's important enough to fight over. I use outlook as well as some other email programs. It's all email. Nothing to get rilled up about there. At my work we have to use Notes. I hate Notes, but I use it anyways.

    But if IT starts saying no internet access, and it's not a temporary phase, then I'd probably start looking for another job. I work on open source software. If I couldn't use the internet, my productivity would be seriously hampered. And a company that's more concerned about security than productivity and revenues is a sinking ship. When they close the doors, they'll have 100% scurity. [​IMG]

    Now if I was working at a government job requiring a security clearance, I'd expect there to be a lot more security. I probably wouldn't be working on open source software. And they probably would have a 'no internet' policy. If I didn't like this, I would either have to decide to just live with it, or get a job elsewhere. If I took a job like that and in defiance gained internet access against company policy, I should expect I'd lose my security clearance and my job.

    A lot does depend on the situation.

    I can see how the email virus thing can be a real problem. The only thing that seems reasonable is to get anti-virus software for everyone's computer and prepare for when a virus gets in anyways.

    Cheers,

    - bones
     
  16. JohnVB

    JohnVB Stunt Coordinator

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    Jay,

    I'm beginning to see a little more. You've got a bad dynamic going on there at your company. Anything you can do to be a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem?

    - bones
     
  17. Rob Gillespie

    Rob Gillespie Producer

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    I tend to agree. Jay, you're officially a pain in the ass [​IMG]
     
  18. JohnVB

    JohnVB Stunt Coordinator

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    Rob,
    Yep, in an environment like that, you're just not going to get uniformity.

    Since people are "mucking" with their own machines anyways, why don't you have them install it themselves? Just help the people who don't know how or are afraid of their computer.

    If someone gets a virus and they haven't installed AV software, you can send out an email something like:

    "Well since didn't bother to install AV software, we all now get to make sure we delete emails with such and such subject line."

    This way it embarasses the person a little (don't embarass them too much), and let's them know that the cultural norm is to maintain AV software on their computer. After a message like that, you'll see a flurry of activity where people are asking "where can I get the AV software, and do I need to apply any patches to it?"

    [​IMG]

    It's a little softer than enforcement through a company policy and possibly more effective.

    This approach, of course, will depend heavily on the personalities at your company. You don't want someone crucified or to loose thier job over this. You just want to tweak 'em a little.

    - bones
     
  19. Rob Gillespie

    Rob Gillespie Producer

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    LOL! [​IMG]

    These people have trouble using a mouse half the time (though they have no difficulty playing the 200mb worth of MP3 files on their hard drives).

    It's just down to logistics. There's simple too many people with too much rope on too many antiquated machines on too many domains we have no access to. We don't do a bad job considering but it's really the clients own fault and they know that well.
     
  20. Wayne Bundrick

    Wayne Bundrick Cinematographer

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    Did you see where I wrote the word "need"? That shouldn't be different from "the accepted application set for the company". If what employees need is not what is accepted by IT then that's another job IT isn't doing well, because it is also IT's job to determine exactly what the employees need, then find, evaluate, and recommend products that are suitable for the employees' purposes as well as suitable for security and administration by IT. So yes, IT does in fact have a say in what hardware and software the company buys. It was the IT people who picked it out.
     

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