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Suzanne.S

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Jul 23, 2002
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255
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St. Louis, MO
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Suzanne
I guess in many ways it comes down to generational differences. I became a die hard movie fan when I was 8 years old. This was before VCRs and my fondest wish would be to own all the movies and TV shows that I loved. I wanted to be able to watch them at any time instead of having to set the alarm to wake up at 2am to see an obscure classic on the late late show. My parents were quite understanding and allowed me to get up in the middle of the night or stay up past my bedtime. But I really wanted to OWN my movies. I got my wish when I was in college. I worked at a local video store and used both my credit card and my employee discount to the fullest.

These days, I continue to collect because my tastes are not well represented on the streaming platforms. I like classics and silents and these are much harder to find. I love the extras on many discs. And I love knowing that I have them available to watch on my schedule.

I'm also not really sold on streaming due to buffering and bandwidth. This isn't limited to home streaming either. We went to see Citizen Kane last night at a local theater. It was being shown as part of TCM & Fathom Events Big Screen Classic Series. There were several instances of "A portion of the signal has been lost." messages and lots of artifacting. We spoke with the manager after and he told us that they don't even send drives for those showings any more. They have a satellite connection and tune to a particular channel at the appropriate time. This is unfortunate because they were charging $15.00 a person for this. I expected better.

I am fortunate that my husband is very understanding and generous. He doesn't often complain about my collection and the massive amounts of space it takes up in our tiny house. ;)
 

Dave Moritz

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California
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There are a number of reasons to love physical media over streaming even though yes there is the convenience factor of streaming. But the streaming model alienates many who have low bitrate internet to no internet.

  • Ownership of content and the ability to watch even if the version of the film is changed down the road.
  • The ability to watch every film in your physical library even if finances get bad you have to temporarily drop internet service.
  • Even if there is a legal battle / lawsuit and the streaming version is pulled you can still watch the movie that is still in your library.
  • The use of lossless codex's like Dolby True HD, DTS-HD Master Audio and the lossless cores used in DTS=X and Dolby Atmos.
  • The chance that your physical copy could actually gain in worth and be worth more many years later
  • Physical media is collectable while digital streaming is not.
  • Undamaged discs give you the same viewing experience every time and are not subject to the issues one might experience because of issues with internet service.
  • While I have many movies in digital streaming I still love the ability to own the movie till I decide to sell it or leave it to someone in my will.
  • Technically disc movies are better for the planet vs digital copies on countless server farms and the internet infrastructure that use vast amounts of electricity generated by pollution sources.
  • For lesser known titles that are not available to stream discs may be the only way to see certain films.
 

Indy Guy

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Apr 19, 2012
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30
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Tony Baxter
I see motion pictures as the primary art form of the 20th century. In the same way drawings, paintings, sculpture and literature held that position in prior times, there are multiple ways to appreciate art. People with a passion for original art pay huge sums at auctions to acquire original paintings, while the majority of art collectors are content with a print, a poster or book of favorite artists work. Many people are content to simply enjoy art in a museum, or use art as wallpaper on a flat panel, masking that intrusive black rectangle! Similarly, literature can be found in prized first additions, or collectable leather bound volumes in stately libraries. Hardcover, paperback, audio, and ebooks versions exist for those who just like to read. Very different mindsets accompany all these options.

As for the artistry of motion pictures, what interests me is that films are among the most expensive forms of art ever created and yet the varieties of ways we have to appreciate them are among the cheapest in relation to costs of creation. For the last century it has been possible to go to theaters to view millions of dollars worth of creativity for next to nothing in relation to the cost. Evolving technologies have now made it possible for film aficionados to experience such "masterworks" at home. The cost differential between the finest 4K collectors editions and a streamed viewing is very small in comparison to fine art or literature. A first edition of Dickens "Great Expectations" or Mitchell's "Gone With the Wind" would cost thousands. A original Van Gogh or Renoir might go for millions. With motion pictures, we have the opportunity to own or view near perfect clones of cinematic artistry...often exceeding the quality of initial presentations via streaming, physical disc or even DCP files created specifically for theaters. Walt Disney, Cecil B DeMille, and Louis B Mayer never experienced their creations in the high quality ways we consumers are able to enjoy them!

That brings me to the here and now. I think it's time for the prevalent art form to evolve once again. You can see this in everything from cat videos to immersive gaming...everyone is an auteur. We have entered a collecting era where upgrades and select new titles dominate the overwhelming sea of content. The days of movie stars, matinee idols and classic film are more or less "in the can". It's a good time to polish and refine existing collections and prepare for the next big thing.

While nobody knows what that might be, imagine going to a conventional theater to see a blockbuster cinematic version of a game like Uncharted 4 or a film franchise like Indiana Jones. Instead of flesh and blood actors the cast is digitally photorealistic (Don't laugh...it was only 10 years between Oswald the Rabbit and Snow White). When the cinema window ends, you purchase a digital copy, but...in addition to the requisite cinematic story, the file can be opened up to let visitors go anywhere within the artistic environments. Imagine the possibilities of creating new sequences not part of the original story! The financing for such a hybrid art form could fuse the massive expenses for blockbuster movies with those of blockbuster games...roughly doubling what either art form spends independently!

I find it interesting to ponder what other "next best things" may be out there to take a place in the popular arts revolution that has moved us from sculpture, art and literature to cinema and on towards whatever may be next...
Just thinking!
 

ManW_TheUncool

His Own Fool
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The BK
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I'm also not really sold on streaming due to buffering and bandwidth. This isn't limited to home streaming either. We went to see Citizen Kane last night at a local theater. It was being shown as part of TCM & Fathom Events Big Screen Classic Series. There were several instances of "A portion of the signal has been lost." messages and lots of artifacting. We spoke with the manager after and he told us that they don't even send drives for those showings any more. They have a satellite connection and tune to a particular channel at the appropriate time. This is unfortunate because they were charging $15.00 a person for this. I expected better.

And certainly, you should've gotten better. That's pretty lame of them to use satellite broadband for something like this. IF there were no better options, they should probably charge much less... maybe just make it essentially free and only charge for concessions or something.

But yes, if I have to rely on satellite broadband or the like, I likely would not be spending any $ on digital/streaming either.

I am fortunate that my husband is very understanding and generous. He doesn't often complain about my collection and the massive amounts of space it takes up in our tiny house. ;)

Very glad for you. He sounds like a definite keeper! :cool:



There are a number of reasons to love physical media over streaming even though yes there is the convenience factor of streaming. But the streaming model alienates many who have low bitrate internet to no internet.

  • Ownership of content and the ability to watch even if the version of the film is changed down the road.
  • The ability to watch every film in your physical library even if finances get bad you have to temporarily drop internet service.

It doesn't need to be all-or-nothing, so as I mentioned earlier, by all means, own/collect discs for titles most important to you. Let streaming be a good supplement/complement me thinks (and it sounds like you do that to some extent). Of course, if your collecting is small scale enough anyway, then there's probably much less need for something like that...

  • Even if there is a legal battle / lawsuit and the streaming version is pulled you can still watch the movie that is still in your library.

As I mentioned before, physical media actually isn't quite as protected from such issues as collectors tend to think. IF big corporate is willing enough to alienate consumers by revoking your digital purchases in substantial manner (not merely what's available on subscription services and such), they may also be willing enough to make use of certain mechanisms built into physical media access too. Just that the latter doesn't often generate press and discussion is all.

  • The use of lossless codex's like Dolby True HD, DTS-HD Master Audio and the lossless cores used in DTS=X and Dolby Atmos.

I'm hoping that changes before too long... at least that they'd provide higher bitrates even if the audio remains lossy. Certainly a possibility since music streaming is trending toward lossless nowadays...

  • Technically disc movies are better for the planet vs digital copies on countless server farms and the internet infrastructure that use vast amounts of electricity generated by pollution sources.

This seems a bit far afield, haha. The entire movie enthusiast community's choice in the matter probably has no meaningful impact on that anyway. There are just too few of us... while the masses will stream, etc.

  • For lesser known titles that are not available to stream discs may be the only way to see certain films.

This could actually go either way from my experience, which is why it's IMO best to not exclude either option. Many of us aren't suggesting don't collect discs, but rather, don't be too quick to write off streaming options, particularly w/ digital purchases from the likes of iTunes (at least when they're on sale at very attractive prices... or even included as DCs w/ disc purchases).

_Man_
 

Dave Moritz

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California
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Dave Moritz
I am sure I have embraced streaming options, lol. ;) But IMHO disc is still king and I do not need to turn on my a/v system to see what I have access to if I think about watching something. Between discs, movie channels and streaming if I can not find something to watch I am in trouble, rofl. :rolling-smiley:

iTunes 240 + titles

Plus these streaming subscriptions internet and satellite:

Showtime
The Movie Channel

Disney+
Netflix
Prime Video
HBO Max
 

Scott Merryfield

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Scott Merryfield
I do still buy discs (just got the 4K Arrow release of The Bird With The Crystal Plumage and the Shout 4K of The Deer Hunter), but the majority of my film purchases these days are digital -- mostly through iTunes. In my case, it's for two reasons: (1) the purchase price is much less for digital versions, and (2) we are retired and now spend more time at our second home in South Carolina. Having a larger digital library gives me more viewing options at that 2nd home, as I am not transporting my disc collection back and forth between Michigan and SC. I do not even have a disc player at the place in South Carolina. Fortunately, high speed Internet service is available at both locations.

We currently have subscriptions with three services -- Amazon, Disney+ and Paramount+. The Amazon subscription is part of Prime membership which has other benefits, while the other two were pre-paid large discount offerings when each service first began. I rarely watch films via these subscription services -- mostly it's either original content or old TV shows.
 

jcroy

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Nov 28, 2011
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7,316
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jr
I find it interesting to ponder what other "next best things" may be out there to take a place in the popular arts revolution that has moved us from sculpture, art and literature to cinema and on towards whatever may be next...
Just thinking!

I want a holodeck !!!

It will become like a holo-crack/cocaine version of Wall-E, similar to the way facebook, twitter, instagram, tiktok, etc ... are today.

;)
 

kalm_traveler

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Jul 24, 2014
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215
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Utah
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Jake
I do still buy discs (just got the 4K Arrow release of The Bird With The Crystal Plumage and the Shout 4K of The Deer Hunter), but the majority of my film purchases these days are digital -- mostly through iTunes. In my case, it's for two reasons: (1) the purchase price is much less for digital versions, and (2) we are retired and now spend more time at our second home in South Carolina. Having a larger digital library gives me more viewing options at that 2nd home, as I am not transporting my disc collection back and forth between Michigan and SC. I do not even have a disc player at the place in South Carolina. Fortunately, high speed Internet service is available at both locations.

We currently have subscriptions with three services -- Amazon, Disney+ and Paramount+. The Amazon subscription is part of Prime membership which has other benefits, while the other two were pre-paid large discount offerings when each service first began. I rarely watch films via these subscription services -- mostly it's either original content or old TV shows.
Definitely makes sense. I've used Amazon quite a bit for streaming to test out titles that I haven't seen before (if I end up enjoying them enough they inevitably make their way into my physical collection). Never intended on streaming as a reason to pay for Prime but since I already have it I use it from time to time.

Haven't ever tried any of the other streaming services but I have a small list of Netflix titles to watch if I ever get around to a trial account with them (though this list has been around so long it's likely by the time I decide to start a free trial many/all of those titles might no longer be available! hence my thought about why discs can be ideal... once you buy the disc you can watch it forever, vs hoping that a streaming platform doesn't stop carrying something).
 

jcroy

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jr
As I mentioned before, physical media actually isn't quite as protected from such issues as collectors tend to think. IF big corporate is willing enough to alienate consumers by revoking your digital purchases in substantial manner (not merely what's available on subscription services and such), they may also be willing enough to make use of certain mechanisms built into physical media access too. Just that the latter doesn't often generate press and discussion is all.

In principle, the evil media corporations don't even have to invoke the "nuclear option" on bluray discs. All they have to do is just wait long enough for nature to take its course, in the form of "disc rot" from chemical decomposition.
 

jcroy

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jr
(Going further into paranoia territory).

If one has a great fear of evil media corporations invoking the "nuclear option" which deliberately disables and "bricks" optical disc players, then there's only really two options left over which are immune to this "nuclear option": redbook audio cds and dvd-video. So this means a generic cd/dvd player which has no wifi, no ethernet jack, no apps, etc ...

The redbook audio cd and dvd-video specs are old enough such that the former had no drm to begin with, while the latter had an extremely weak drm from the start which was cracked entirely (back in late 1999). Neither redbook cd nor dvd-video has any "nuclear option" which can deliberately brick an optical disc player.
 

kalm_traveler

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Utah
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Jake
(Going further into paranoia territory).

If one has a great fear of evil media corporations invoking the "nuclear option" which deliberately disables and "bricks" optical disc players, then there's only really two options left over which are immune to this "nuclear option": redbook audio cds and dvd-video. So this means a generic cd/dvd player which has no wifi, no ethernet jack, no apps, etc ...

The redbook audio cd and dvd-video specs are old enough such that the former had no drm to begin with, while the latter had an extremely weak drm from the start which was cracked entirely (back in late 1999). Neither redbook cd nor dvd-video has any "nuclear option" which can deliberately brick an optical disc player.
wouldn't ripping the blu rays to PC also work? If the medium itself is no longer part of the equation but the data is kept, that seems like a win. An expensive win, but a win nonetheless.
 

jcroy

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wouldn't ripping the blu rays to PC also work? If the medium itself is no longer part of the equation but the data is kept, that seems like a win. An expensive win, but a win nonetheless.

This would be fine as long as you never mistakenly insert a "nuclear bomb" bluray/4Kbluray disc into a computer disc drive.

My wild guess is if the evil movie companies ever try to pull off such a "nuclear option" stunt on bluray /4Kbluray, I wouldn't be surprised if the aacs (or aacs2) private encryption keys are leaked by a whistleblower to wikileaks.
 

The Drifter

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Jim
I'm a middle-aged guy & grew up with Physical Media (PM), i.e. Music CD's/cassettes (and even Vinyl to some extent) for music, and VHS tapes for movies....but I really got into PM when I started collecting DVD's back in 2003, and it took off from there. I always have been & always will be a PM fan/collector/supporter first & foremost.

Yes, some of the PM formats were/are awful (i.e., music cassettes/VHS tapes). However, the disk format (CD/DVD/Blu) is, overall, fantastic & I strongly prefer it to streaming

Re: music specifically, I like listening to CD's (rather than digital) because I strongly prefer listening to songs in the album format - rather than just listening to individual songs here & there. And, I still have a CD player in my car that I use whenever driving, so the CD format is honestly more convenient than digital from that stand-point (though I'm sure a lot of people will argue with me about that).

A lot of my continued liking & supporting PM probably has to do with my streaming service being, overall - poor. So, I find PM far more reliable/dependable.

In addition, I've never seen a stream with PQ comparable to HD/Blu. Most streams have DVD-comparable PQ, or are worse than DVD.

That being said, I do still stream some movies/TV shows & I also sometimes stream music. And, obviously, there are still films/TV shows that have never hit physical media - and some/many?! never will. So, streaming is the only option in many cases.
 
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Josh Steinberg

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But will any of your loved ones actually want all those discs? There's no one in my family who would.

Ever hear of leaving it to a charity, a library, a school etc?

There is no one in my family that wants my collection after I’m gone, and frankly, they would be just as irritated having to haul it out to the trash as if it were any other kind of collectible that is past it’s moment.

I’ve been weeding my collection for the past several years of titles I’ll never watch again and it’s been nearly impossible to find takers. Local charities, schools and libraries have no interest - it’s just stuff to them that they don’t want and can’t use, and the effort to either store it or sell it would exceed whatever pittance it brought in. Very few things have found buyers on Amazon and eBay. I’ve put up for sale posts on HTF’s classifieds and almost nothing sold. Because of shipping and handling costs, not to mention the time it takes to package items and drop off at the post office, it winds up being both a time and money loser.

I’m not saying that to be a jerk. I enjoy this hobby. But I have no expectations that anyone will want this stuff when I’m gone.

That’s also why I don’t argue with people about why I collect. Most of the arguments in this and many other threads about why discs are better are emotional rather than logical arguments filled with straw men scenarios. Speaking for myself, it’s far more honest to say “I do it because I enjoy it” than assigning any other justification.
 

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