How do you explain your love of physical media in an era of streaming? (1 Viewer)

[YANG]

Hmmm... rejoice with a TechGeek chiping in?​

 

[tsodcollector]

it plays a whole lot tsod,dvd'sit worth watching,and worth every penny of it.

 

[nobajoba]

As others said, you don't have to explain it. Hobbies are whatever interests you. It doesn't have to interest anyone else. It does not affect them and it's none of their business. People collect all sorts of things that others find useless: stamps, coins, tiny ceramic animal figurines, commemorative plates, etc. Up until a few years ago, no one cared about vinyl records any more. Now Walmart is selling them again.

For me, it's mostly about availability and access. It's unlikely you'll find everything you have on disc available for streaming, and the continued access to those that may be available is not guaranteed. As long as your disc is readable and you have a functional player, you should always have those titles.

Then there's the issue of cost. Even if the titles are available for streaming, you may need to subscribe to 17 different services, paying never-ending monthly fees, to maintain access to them all while hoping none of them drop the titles you're interested in watching. You can buy a disc for a few dollars and it's yours forever for no additional cost.

Bingo.

 

[The Drifter]

Some musings/thoughts about Blu players:

What I've already seen discussed online amongst physical media aficionados/fans is the slight concern that they may stop manufacturing Blu players at some point in the future. I've already noticed that some (though not all) retail stores have stopped carrying them - due to the popularity/prevalence of streaming, etc. However, Thankfully you can easily go online & still find them for sale.

Going along with this - my more recent Blu players will typically stop working after about a 1 year - 1 1/2 years; I try to always get a warranty on them, but it's still disheartening that they last such a relatively short period of time.

At this point, what I've personally experienced re: my Blu players is that while they may stop playing Blu's, they will typically still play regular DVD's - so, keeping at least one of these players (that only plays DVD's) as a "back-up" is obviously a good idea.

And, taking this one step further - it's also obviously a good idea to have two working Blu players - so that if one breaks, you can always use the other one as a back-up, etc.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Going along with this - my more recent Blu players will typically stop working after about a 1 year - 1 1/2 years

That seems unusual to me. If it happened once, I’d chalk it up to the player being a lemon, but if your players are consistently dying after about a year, with respect, it might be worth looking into environmental factors in your home that could be contributing to their premature demise.

Interesting that Blu-ray functionality goes while DVD functionality remains. They each use a separate laser, a red one for DVD/CD and a blue one for BD. The data written on BD discs is physically much smaller etchings on the disc and the blue laser is more capable of reading those tinier markings but the smaller size of the markings means it’s much easier for them to become obscured by even the tiniest amount of dust, whereas the same amount of dust wouldn’t necessarily disrupt the red laser reading a DVD.

If you have pets in the house, pet hair and/or dander can easily make it onto discs or inside the player. Same for dust and microscopic debris.

Would recommend trying a laser cleaner for the player and soft, non-abrasive cloth wipes for the discs.

 

[The Drifter]

That seems unusual to me. If it happened once, I’d chalk it up to the player being a lemon, but if your players are consistently dying after about a year, with respect, it might be worth looking into environmental factors in your home that could be contributing to their premature demise.

Interesting that Blu-ray functionality goes while DVD functionality remains. They each use a separate laser, a red one for DVD/CD and a blue one for BD. The data written on BD discs is physically much smaller etchings on the disc and the blue laser is more capable of reading those tinier markings but the smaller size of the markings means it’s much easier for them to become obscured by even the tiniest amount of dust, whereas the same amount of dust wouldn’t necessarily disrupt the red laser reading a DVD.

If you have pets in the house, pet hair and/or dander can easily make it onto discs or inside the player. Same for dust and microscopic debris.

Would recommend trying a laser cleaner for the player and soft, non-abrasive cloth wipes for the discs.

Good to know - Thank you for the feedback/advice. I don't have any pets, so I'm not sure why this is happening.

I will see if I can get a laser cleaner for the player & will also get non-abrasive wipes for the disks.

 

[Blu Eye]

Some musings/thoughts about Blu players:

What I've already seen discussed online amongst physical media aficionados/fans is the slight concern that they may stop manufacturing Blu players at some point in the future. I've already noticed that some (though not all) retail stores have stopped carrying them - due to the popularity/prevalence of streaming, etc. However, Thankfully you can easily go online & still find them for sale.

Going along with this - my more recent Blu players will typically stop working after about a 1 year - 1 1/2 years; I try to always get a warranty on them, but it's still disheartening that they last such a relatively short period of time.

At this point, what I've personally experienced re: my Blu players is that while they may stop playing Blu's, they will typically still play regular DVD's - so, keeping at least one of these players (that only plays DVD's) as a "back-up" is obviously a good idea.

And, taking this one step further - it's also obviously a good idea to have two working Blu players - so that if one breaks, you can always use the other one as a back-up, etc.

The general concern in the community about blu ray players becoming obsolete or rare where no manufacturers bring them to market is not based on any evidence or reasoning.

They will be cheaper to manufacture as time goes on due to many factors.

One major factor is patents.

Although not checked the patents on manufacturing blu ray players will probably be expiring soon in the near future.

Therefore, no company will be required to licence from the patent holder (Sony??) once it expires.

That will save costs. In all likelihood there will be an incentive for someone to bring a product to market.

If I am not mistaken the patent on DVD manufacturer has expired.

How easy is it to buy a player? There seem to be choices around and prices are really cheap.

How much were they when the technology was new?

All new technology is expensive at first as the manufacturer has to recoup the massive investment made in R & D.

That's why they have patents so companies have an incentive to design and invent new products whilst also having exclusive rights to licence out to any other company over a legal time frame.

I am not worried about lack of supply or choice of players in the near future or further down the line.

 

[The Drifter]

The general concern in the community about blu ray players becoming obsolete or rare where no manufacturers bring them to market is not based on any evidence or reasoning.

They will be cheaper to manufacture as time goes on due to many factors.

One major factor is patents.

Although not checked the patents on manufacturing blu ray players will probably be expiring soon in the near future.

Therefore, no company will be required to licence from the patent holder (Sony??) once it expires.

That will save costs. In all likelihood there will be an incentive for someone to bring a product to market.

If I am not mistaken the patent on DVD manufacturer has expired.

How easy is it to buy a player? There seem to be choices around and prices are really cheap.

How much were they when the technology was new?

All new technology is expensive at first as the manufacturer has to recoup the massive investment made in R & D.

That's why they have patents so companies have an incentive to design and invent new products whilst also having exclusive rights to licence out to any other company over a legal time frame.

I am not worried about lack of supply or choice of players in the near future or further down the line.

This is extremely good to know, and is something I was unaware of. Thanks for the post/info.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Good to know - Thank you for the feedback/advice. I don't have any pets, so I'm not sure why this is happening.

I will see if I can get a laser cleaner for the player & will also get non-abrasive wipes for the disks.

I didn't have pets either, but yeah, I also experienced somewhat similar issues as you, but not quite on all players I had, so it could certainly be some mix between mediocre design and/or QC *plus* your environment and how your players get used.

Still, I do think they simply don't make players like they used to (so to speak) on top of the fact that these higher density, higher precision tech are just much more prone to issues... and also makes one value apparently better made (and supported) players like Oppos that much more. But unfortunately, Oppo left the bizz quite long ago now (and not sure if they still provide servicing/repair support anymore)...

Anyway, yeah, I keep 2 players in my (main) HT setup partly to help extend each player's life, especially the Oppo (for various reasons), and partly to keep their usage for various formats (and region-locked playback) separated and more easily managed -- I use my Panny 420 for all 4K and regular BD playback while my Oppo 103 for other-region BDs and all music disc playback, including SACD (of course)... and have my Harmony remote programmed accordingly.

I am not worried about lack of supply or choice of players in the near future or further down the line.

While I generally agree that some companies or other will keep making players (at whatever great or small scale) for a long time to come, I wouldn't assume player quality will remain all that good though. As it is, there seems no solid replacement for Oppo in the marketplace so far for instance (unless one counts the couple more expensive, audiophile-centric ones I guess, but I haven't really paid attention to those).

I haven't checked, but does Denon still make BD players and have they even ever made 4K players at all? They used to be roughly what Oppo became (and I guess supplanted them)... though maybe w/ somewhat lesser servicing support -- and the one $400-500 Denon universal DVD player I had started flaking out on DVDs w/in maybe 4-5 years soon after I jumped upto BDs w/ a PS3 IIRC, but it did keep playing CDs, including SACDs, perfectly fine... though I haven't used it in several years now (after I upgraded that home office setup to a gently used Oppo 95... though primarily for stereo music playback on good headphones)...

There will probably also be optical drives made primarily for computers, so even if no (particularly) good standalones are made anymore, one might well be able to go w/ some sorta HTPC (whether DIY or turnkey) or could probably just opt to rip everything for max quality local NAS streaming (w/ ever cheaper computing storage, etc costs) or the like -- maybe someone might even eventually offer affordable (enough) paid service for doing substantial library/collection rips perhaps for those of us not inclined to do so for ourselves (for whatever reasons)...

_Man_

 

[Josh Steinberg]

As it is, there seems no solid replacement for Oppo in the marketplace so far for instance

The high-end Panasonic players are widely considered to be the replacement for Oppo.

I am not worried about lack of supply or choice of players in the near future or further down the line.

Seen any new VCRs for sale lately? How about laserdisc players? 8 track? At some point, if sales decline below a certain level, and if software manufactures throw in the towel on discs, the hardware will follow suit. Hardware for this niche hobby of ours goes extinct all the time.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

The high-end Panasonic players are widely considered to be the replacement for Oppo.

They aren't (on multiple scores) as far as I'm concerned (plus I have my beef w/ their designs and reliability in general even though I do use their 420 as my main movie disc player now), which is largely why I still haven't bought their otherwise seemingly pretty good 820 even when it dropped as low as ~$350 at one point.

Yes, they're probably the best options (outside of the audiophile world) in the current marketplace, but they are definitely no Oppos.

_Man_

 

[Josh Steinberg]

They aren't (on multiple scores) as far as I'm concerned (plus I have my beef w/ their designs and reliability in general even though I do use their 420 as my main movie disc player now), which is largely why I still haven't bought their otherwise seemingly pretty good 820 even when it dropped as low as ~$350 at one point.

Yes, they're probably the best options (outside of the audiophile world) in the current marketplace, but they are definitely no Oppos.

_Man_

The enthusiast community generally recommends the 820 as a successor to the Oppo.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

The enthusiast community generally recommends the 820 as a successor to the Oppo.

I don't care what many others think of it, but I know the 820 is not really comparable (at least on aspects that matter to me in a premium priced player). It's just what's best and comes closest in the current marketplace, but not actually really comparable (again, on multiple scores) -- and it doesn't come close enough for me to pay the premium over just going w/ the 420 to pair w/ my existing Oppo 103.

Same w/ the higher price 9000... though that one's priced lower than the Oppo it would've (sorta) competed against, if Oppo was still making theirs. I wouldn't normally consider spending $1K-plus for disc player, but by this point, I might if it actually checks all my desired boxes, including longevity/reliability/support, but Panasonic just doesn't check nearly enough of those boxes.

_Man_

 

[Blu Eye]

The high-end Panasonic players are widely considered to be the replacement for Oppo.



Seen any new VCRs for sale lately? How about laserdisc players? 8 track? At some point, if sales decline below a certain level, and if software manufactures throw in the towel on discs, the hardware will follow suit. Hardware for this niche hobby of ours goes extinct all the time.

I think VCR and laser disc is not a valid comparison to DVD or Blu Ray.

The quality is far superior to those technologies.

Technology has caught up where movies can be watched at home similar to what you can get in the cinema at least in relation to image and sound.

Screen size might be another issue and not relevant to our matter at hand here.

There is no significant demand for VHS or laser disc because the consumer can choose from a superior product (blu ray & DVD) at reasonable prices.

There is still demand for vinyl and vinyl players.

One of many reasons for this is due to the fact that the quality is still reasonable despite its age.

CD or any other more modern alternative is not leaps and bounds superior to vinyl hence there is still a market.

It is highly unlikely there will be a product that will be far superior to blu ray/4k to make them practically obsolete.

I still stand by my original post.

I am not concerned about lack of supply in the future.

I am not even concerned about disc labels going out either.

The competition might reduce and prices might be higher as a consequence but discs and players should be around for the remainder of our lifetimes.

There is nothing that suggests to me it is a major concern about products vanishing.

 

[dpippel]

Yes, they're probably the best options (outside of the audiophile world) in the current marketplace, but they are definitely no Oppos.

_Man_

Well, that depends on what you're looking for in a 4K UHD player. If you're primarily interested in high-quality video playback, the UB820 and UB9000 can't be beaten. I put both of these up against my Oppo UDP-203 and felt that both Pannies produced more detailed 4K and Blu-ray playback with my OLED display. It was somewhat subtle but definitely noticeable. The Oppo was slightly soft in comparison.

Now, if you were looking for a rock-solid universal player with SACD support, the Oppos couldn't be bested IMO. However, since Oppo is no longer producing disc players the comparison is somewhat moot unless you're willing to take the risk of buying a used machine.

 

[Blu Eye]

I didn't have pets either, but yeah, I also experienced somewhat similar issues as you, but not quite on all players I had, so it could certainly be some mix between mediocre design and/or QC *plus* your environment and how your players get used.

Still, I do think they simply don't make players like they used to (so to speak) on top of the fact that these higher density, higher precision tech are just much more prone to issues... and also makes one value apparently better made (and supported) players like Oppos that much more. But unfortunately, Oppo left the bizz quite long ago now (and not sure if they still provide servicing/repair support anymore)...

Anyway, yeah, I keep 2 players in my (main) HT setup partly to help extend each player's life, especially the Oppo (for various reasons), and partly to keep their usage for various formats (and region-locked playback) separated and more easily managed -- I use my Panny 420 for all 4K and regular BD playback while my Oppo 103 for other-region BDs and all music disc playback, including SACD (of course)... and have my Harmony remote programmed accordingly.



While I generally agree that some companies or other will keep making players (at whatever great or small scale) for a long time to come, I wouldn't assume player quality will remain all that good though. As it is, there seems no solid replacement for Oppo in the marketplace so far for instance (unless one counts the couple more expensive, audiophile-centric ones I guess, but I haven't really paid attention to those).

I haven't checked, but does Denon still make BD players and have they even ever made 4K players at all? They used to be roughly what Oppo became (and I guess supplanted them)... though maybe w/ somewhat lesser servicing support -- and the one $400-500 Denon universal DVD player I had started flaking out on DVDs w/in maybe 4-5 years soon after I jumped upto BDs w/ a PS3 IIRC, but it did keep playing CDs, including SACDs, perfectly fine... though I haven't used it in several years now (after I upgraded that home office setup to a gently used Oppo 95... though primarily for stereo music playback on good headphones)...

There will probably also be optical drives made primarily for computers, so even if no (particularly) good standalones are made anymore, one might well be able to go w/ some sorta HTPC (whether DIY or turnkey) or could probably just opt to rip everything for max quality local NAS streaming (w/ ever cheaper computing storage, etc costs) or the like -- maybe someone might even eventually offer affordable (enough) paid service for doing substantial library/collection rips perhaps for those of us not inclined to do so for ourselves (for whatever reasons)...

_Man_

Quality of products is a different matter entirely.

Whether there will be high end machines available for consumers is a separate issue and will depend on many factors.

From what I can tell the DVD players on the market are probably poor build quality that will probably not last too long after purchase.

Players should be sufficient for video and sound due to the standards set.

Any TV manufacturer that wishes to sell a TV with "4k" branding has to meet certain standards to be able to do so.

Things such as HDR and colour gamut need to meet certain standards so no company can sell any 4k TV that does not perform to the standards set.

The same will apply to official Blu Ray players that display the Blu Ray logo.

They will have to meet standards in relation to HD reproduction etc.

The choice of players might be low build quality but again I am confident there will be at least 1 company selling a high end machine going forward especially when the patents expire.

Furthermore, you have game consoles such as Playstation that play discs.

How many units of those are sold?

Do you think they are going to be obsolete any time soon?

Again there is too much worry without any justification about products vanishing from the market.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Well, that depends on what you're looking for in a 4K UHD player. If you're primarily interested in high-quality video playback, the UB820 and UB9000 can't be beaten. I put both of these up against my Oppo UDP-203 and felt that both Pannies produced more detailed 4K and Blu-ray playback with my OLED display. It was somewhat subtle but definitely noticeable. The Oppo was slightly soft in comparison.

Now, if you were looking for a rock-solid universal player with SACD support, the Oppos couldn't be bested IMO. However, since Oppo is no longer producing disc players the comparison is somewhat moot unless you're willing to take the risk of buying a used machine.

That's the thing. If I'm gonna bother paying the premium, I don't want it to fall that far short of what I actually want. And part of that is good SACD support... plus good longevity/reliability and general support, which Panasonic doesn't really meet in my experience... plus their UI is still quite lame even if somewhat better (in some ways) than other mainstream makers.

Gosh, I can't even seem to easily find out the current time mark during playback (nor how much time left), LOL -- maybe I'm missing something w/ how I programmed my Harmony remote, but I just haven't been able to do that at all on my 420 (apparently unless I start fastforwarding or reversing at higher speeds, which requires multiple button-presses and completely interrupts playback), LOL. Their UI is just quite clunky in general -- and no, I haven't even bothered trying their streaming apps... though I recall them being extremely clunky on my old Panny BD players before upgrading to Oppo (and dedicated streaming boxes).

I mean sure, they're probably the best options on the current marketplace... and I don't deny that at all, but being the best in a big pile of otherwise steaming poo-poo doesn't say much though... even if that's a (slight) bit hyperbolic, LOL...

_Man_

 

[Blu Eye]

I don't care what many others think of it, but I know the 820 is not really comparable (at least on aspects that matter to me in a premium priced player). It's just what's best and comes closest in the current marketplace, but not actually really comparable (again, on multiple scores) -- and it doesn't come close enough for me to pay the premium over just going w/ the 420 to pair w/ my existing Oppo 103.

Same w/ the higher price 9000... though that one's priced lower than the Oppo it would've (sorta) competed against, if Oppo was still making theirs. I wouldn't normally consider spending $1K-plus for disc player, but by this point, I might if it actually checks all my desired boxes, including longevity/reliability/support, but Panasonic just doesn't check nearly enough of those boxes.

_Man_

Not owned a high end player such as Oppo so cannot comment on build quality in relation to that product.

But in relation to Panasonic and its playback capabilities it appears to be equal or even superior to Oppo based on user and expert reviews.

Build quality?

The jury will still be out on both as it is still too early for enough data on players malfunctioning etc.

But I can tell you from being a current owner of a high end Panasonic OLED TV that in my experience the company makes products with superior build quality.

Have owned it over 3 years now and many hours use has been had from it so far and there are no signs of it degrading.

It looks and feels as though it is built to last.

My next player will be Panasonic as I have been impressed with the brand from my TV experience.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Quality of products is a different matter entirely.

Whether there will be high end machines available for consumers is a separate issue and will depend on many factors.

I wasn't talking "high end". I'm only talking good, mainstream level players like the lower end Panasonic lines for instance. Yeah, I sounded like I'm (very) down on Panny, but that's only relative to what I would expect if I'm paying the premium. But for a $150-200 player (that seems almost disposable nowadays), they're alright -- and sadly, the apparent top dog by a good margin... though I haven't tried LG so far.

The big makers will probably exit the marketplace at some point. And then, we might never see any particularly good standalone players ever again ironically(?) outside of the "high end" in the audiophile world. It'll most likely be just a bunch of clunky and/or unreliable, (very) mediocre quality players in the lower end (kinda like in the region-free DVD world before hacks for Oppo, Panny, et al came along) and/or a very few remaining "high end" audiophile ones -- and we're probably already headed in that direction... You mentioned vinyl in a separate comment, and that's exactly how that market is, ie. just some very cheap/cheezy, very low quality, no-frills models for the revival fad amongst the masses and a few remaining, truly "high end" audiophile ones.

Players should be sufficient for video and sound due to the standards set.

Well, that depends on what "standards" you mean, but if one cares (and knows) quality, then don't bank on that -- sure, we're not likely going (quite) back to how the days of NTSC was, but yet, it's not like the industry has done much to standardize HDR for instance, LOL, NVM other disc format/playback nuances. And again, I'm not even talking the utmost in quality/standards either -- definitely not truly "high end" -- but just good quality that one has been able to get at reasonably affordable prices, if not necessarily quite as affordable as most average consumers want it...

Any TV manufacturer that wishes to sell a TV with "4k" branding has to meet certain standards to be able to do so.

Things such as HDR and colour gamut need to meet certain standards so no company can sell any 4k TV that does not perform to the standards set.

The same will apply to official Blu Ray players that display the Blu Ray logo.

They will have to meet standards in relation to HD reproduction etc.

The choice of players might be low build quality but again I am confident there will be at least 1 company selling a high end machine going forward especially when the patents expire.

Furthermore, you have game consoles such as Playstation that play discs.

How many units of those are sold?

Do you think they are going to be obsolete any time soon?

Again there is too much worry without any justification about products vanishing from the market.

I think you give the industry waaaay too much credit/trust, LOL.

I certainly wouldn't trust game consoles to save the day for instance -- and I even went w/ a PS3 for my first BD player, LOL. If anything, they might even disappear before (decent quality) standalone players do at this rate...

Again, there might indeed be some small shops or other making some kinda viable (enough) players for a fairly long time, but don't bank on it. IF you're reasonably handy, there's probably the option of going HTPC of some sort or just ripping your library for local NAS streaming instead, which may end up being the best option in the long run...

_Man_

 

[Bartman]

Good posts. This is a reminder to me to buy another Sony 6700. Of course, once you buy a backup player your main player will never fail. Still that's cheap insurance. I bought a backup Region B player 3.5 years ago, received it, checked it out and it's sitting in a closet waiting for my Seiki (a blast from the past) to fail. Thanks for the posts.