How do you explain your love of physical media in an era of streaming? (1 Viewer)

[JohnRice]

Reading the OP, this genuinely strikes me as a thinly veiled political rant.

 

[John*Wells]

I prefer physical media and always have. My stated reason is and remains that ISPs have the ability if they wish, to charge more for streaming service usage. Net Neutrality no longer exists remember? So I’m always weary of ISP practices.

That being said I have purchased things digitally. Then, purchased them on physical media when I can find them at reasonable prices

 

[jcroy]

The choices you have as a subscriber are limited by the company you use. They can edit, remove or shorten any content they wish for any reason whether you like it or not (and without your knowledge or awareness if you don't know every scene). There is also the aspect of the quality of service. The video quality of streaming is currently inferior to high quality disc releases and some subscribers also complain of inconsistency in relation to the QOS.

The copyright owner can do whatever they want with the works they own outright. If they choose to "desecrate" it for whatever reasons, consumers have the right to not watch/listen/read it at all.

It would require a significant rewrite of copyright, to prohibit such "desecration".

Post Edited by Moderator for political references!

 

[jcroy]

Do most subscribers even think about or care of the potential limited choices we will have in the future? Probably not. The future of cinema could be in serious trouble if we look at the trends. Younger generations of film fans watch their movies on phones and laptops at home and also while on the go. Streaming numbers are increasing year after year.

Economic lockdowns of society have exacerbated the cinema industry problems persisting prior to 2020 and so it could be very problematic for theatres to come back from the dead. The whole industry has and is going through major changes and we have yet to see the full results.

For movie enthusiasts who like films made from all eras it may be a good time to do all you can to continue your support for physical media while we still are free to choose because in the future it may be an inconvenience to watch our movies of choice as opposed to the present situation we find ourselves in where everyone thinks the party will never end.

This sounds almost like the same type of ranting that hardcore rock music fans have been rambling about for over the past 10-15+ years, about how rock n roll has been declining/dying.

 

[jcroy]

And thinking of cost can streaming businesses continue to offer these low rates?

With Netflix closing in on its 20th birthday it still has debts over $15 billion according to this article on Simply Wall St: https://simplywall.st/stocks/us/med...ews/is-netflix-nasdaqnflx-using-too-much-debt

Not exactly rolling in the money are they? Licensing costs, advertising fees along with the mega bucks to make their own content and the risks involved with that (making big budget movies has mega risk which is why Hollywood was a semi-monopoly controlled by a few major studios) and we have the technology costs to boot.

Software developers and the ISP they have to deal with. The bandwidth use is huge.

Sooner or later these monthly fees are going to rise to cover these costs and more. And if Netflix starts to make some serious coin what will the license holders of the major content do?

Stand by and let Netflix make them obsolete? Can't see that happening. It looks as though one of two things will happen.

Either the major studios will increase their licensing fees to Netflix or they say thank you for all the hard work of the last 20 years building this industry but now it's about time we take over and stream the content we own ourselves but thank you very much once again Netflix. Or does Netflix try and buy out a major studio? That's even more mammoth debt assuming that option is even conceivable.

If this Netflix model is completely unsustainable, most likely the company will file for bankruptcy.

Whatever show/movie content library Netflix owns outright, will be auctioned off in a bankruptcy liquidation. Not really sure what else Netflix owns that anybody would want (ie. computers, office furniture, etc ...).

 

[Robert Crawford]

I will merge this thread with another thread that was started just last month.

Update: Posts from another thread have been merged into this thread that has been talking about the subject matter of why people prefer "physical media over streaming". Some posts have been edited for making political references. We should all know by now that such references aren't allowed on this forum. This will be the last warning regarding that issue. Also, can we please reduce the amount of multiple posts from the same person replying to the same quoted post. That would be appreciated by many of us.

 

[Sam Posten]

Most members here use all available options.

THIS. And, not or.

Podcast - HTF Podcast Episode 3: Home Video - Buy, Rent or Stream?

Continue reading the Original Blog Post. https://static.hometheaterforum.com/podcast/htfp_003_home_video.mp3 Subscribe via RSS Subscribe via iTunes / Apple Podcasts Subscribe via Spotify Show Notes E-mail us at [email protected]. Why I Own So Many Movies Ultraviolet Cracked By...

www.hometheaterforum.com

 

[Robert Crawford]

Most members here use all available options.

Do you think so? Maybe it's my own bias towards physical media or the more vocal people who simply are refusing to face the future but I don't think the number would be more than half. No doubt it's a significant amount that will continue to grow but again, I didn't think it had actually hit 51% or more yet.

It's difficult to quantify the percentages, but I suspect more of us stream some material than what they admit to on this forum. That's just my gut feeling. Of course, I'm talking about those that have capability to quality streaming and not that buffered crap we had on Amazon not too many years ago.

 

[JohnRice]

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

[kalm_traveler]

Reading the OP, this genuinely strikes me as a thinly veiled political rant.

my OP?

I'm probably the least interested in politics person you'll ever meet, John.

Though I'm not always successful at getting my point across, I do always try to be as plain and clear in communication as I can be - this thread is no different. Just genuine curiosity about how we all think/feel about physical media as it seems like the market is shifting away from it.

On topic, I think if physical media ever actually dies it will likely signal the end of my love of cinema. Finally having a mostly satisfactory home theater I much prefer to watch movies at home from disc over streaming them or going to an actual theater as there are no longer any pros for me.

As I've probably said earlier in the thread, I do stream some things from time to time but it's more from curiosity about a title or show - if I truly enjoy a movie or series I'll always prefer to watch it on blu ray/ 4k blu ray as even with symmetric 1gbit fiber internet, streaming PQ and AQ are very noticeably inferior to what I'm getting from this 'old' Oppo UDP-203.

 

[JohnRice]

my OP?

I'm probably the least interested in politics person you'll ever meet, John.

Though I'm not always successful at getting my point across, I do always try to be as plain and clear in communication as I can be - this thread is no different. Just genuine curiosity about how we all think/feel about physical media as it seems like the market is shifting away from it.

On topic, I think if physical media ever actually dies it will likely signal the end of my love of cinema. Finally having a mostly satisfactory home theater I much prefer to watch movies at home from disc over streaming them or going to an actual theater as there are no longer any pros for me.

As I've probably said earlier in the thread, I do stream some things from time to time but it's more from curiosity about a title or show - if I truly enjoy a movie or series I'll always prefer to watch it on blu ray/ 4k blu ray as even with symmetric 1gbit fiber internet, streaming PQ and AQ are very noticeably inferior to what I'm getting from this 'old' Oppo UDP-203.

No. Not at all. Another thread was started yesterday on the same topic that was, well, what I described. It was locked due to that and responses incorporated into this thread.

 

[Robert Crawford]

my OP?

I'm probably the least interested in politics person you'll ever meet, John.

This is a merged thread now so he wasn't talking about you as the OP of this original thread.

 

[Angelo Colombus]

I have a large collection of discs on my shelf and will continue to buy more in the future. But i also like the flexibility of streaming and a good example of it was recently when i discovered on my DirecTV both Our Man Flint and In Like Flint was available for streaming in HD. I did miss out in buying the Twilight Time releases but do have the Ultimate Flint Collection dvd set. I decided to stream Our Man Flint for $3.99 and the image was very good and much better than the dvd. Then i streamed In Like Flint and was very happy to have that option to watch it on dvd or a better looking image by streaming.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

It seems us few die hard collectors who champion discs as the prime way to watch movies are a fringe, crackpot irrational group of nut-jobs who need to get with the times and succumb to the convenience of streaming.

Sorry. Not going to do that.

Sure. I get it. Streaming is cheap and there are lots of choices and it's here to stay so why refrain?

Many reasons. Let me start with control.

The choices you have as a subscriber are limited by the company you use. They can edit, remove or shorten any content they wish for any reason whether you like it or not (and without your knowledge or awareness if you don't know every scene). There is also the aspect of the quality of service. The video quality of streaming is currently inferior to high quality disc releases and some subscribers also complain of inconsistency in relation to the QOS.

Post Edited by Moderator for being political.

Is physical media a perfect model? No but if you take away the cost aspect it trumps streaming in about every other way.

And by the way despite the fact that you might have a huge collection of discs I still think it is more convenient selecting to choose from that than via and app on a TV . . .

As is often the case w/ these rants, you seemed to completely ignore/overlook the streaming option to buy/own (or even rent) digital copies instead of subscription-only services.

Agreed those are also (largely, currently) subjected to at least some of the issues you (and others) brought up, but probably not nearly as dire/inevitable/substantial as w/ subscription streaming because the intent/model (and legal/contractual aspect) is inherently different. Still, agreed one would (almost) always be best off owning (high enough quality) physical media -- which would at least be a good BD, not so much DVD -- particularly for something deemed important to one's collection... but it really shouldn't have to be exclusively one way or the other for much of what we want to (be able to) see as long as you have good enough access, especially if there are budget and/or space/storage constraints...

FWIW, my disc collection is not exactly small (at over 2K titles and counting, excluding most older, inferior versions), and quite a few others who do similarly (in mixing physical media and streaming) have more discs (even multiple times more in some cases). IF something is important enough to me (and can noticeably benefit from the extra quality on disc), I'll likely own the (best version) disc at some point, especially if/when the price is right (for me).

Most of us who also buy digitals only do so at frequently recurring sale prices of <=$5/movie (or maybe $5-10/season for TV series) w/ some rare exceptions. At that price, it's only a tad more than what renting used to cost and good for blindbuys, convenience, space-savings, etc.

[Rant about Netflix model being unsustainable...]

Which is why it's important physical media buyers do everything they can to prolong the disc industry because streaming does not offer the promise of a golden age of movie watching as it appears to most viewers.

Do most subscribers even think about or care of the potential limited choices we will have in the future? Probably not. The future of cinema could be in serious trouble if we look at the trends. Younger generations of film fans watch their movies on phones and laptops at home and also while on the go. Streaming numbers are increasing year after year.

Economic lockdowns of society have exacerbated the cinema industry problems persisting prior to 2020 and so it could be very problematic for theatres to come back from the dead. The whole industry has and is going through major changes and we have yet to see the full results.

For movie enthusiasts who like films made from all eras it may be a good time to do all you can to continue your support for physical media while we still are free to choose because in the future it may be an inconvenience to watch our movies of choice as opposed to the present situation we find ourselves in where everyone thinks the party will never end.

IF the real goal is to (help) make the movie enthusiast hobby/interest a sustainable success, we should actually not be too married exclusively to the physical media solution alone. That's actually myopic in itself... and ironic in limiting choice while pretending to promote choice.

Not arguing anyone shouldn't choose to exclusively use physical media for him/herself if that works best for them -- not everyone has good (enough) broadband service afterall for instance, and not everyone shares the same (range of) tastes and/or (limited) space/storage considerations that currently available streaming options might (help) serve well -- but even amongst subscription services, not all are like Netflix though, eg. The Criterion Channel. And of course, Netflix, et al are actually currently helping make some quality movies and shows possible/viable... even if that might not all be sustainable in the long run just as studios (and movie theaters) have come and gone too...

Cheers!

_Man_

 

[Josh Steinberg]

completely ignore/overlook the streaming option to buy/own (or even rent) digital copies instead of subscription-only services.

Unfortunately this seems to be a recurring feature of these discussions. Three different categories of streaming get lumped under one umbrella, and then in turn get used in apples to oranges comparisons that in my opinion are less than productive.

I appreciate you taking a moment to mention that.

“Streaming” can really refer to three distinctly different things:

-subscription streaming, which is the 21st century equivalent of 20th century subscriptions to pay channels like HBO. Movies and shows didn’t stay on HBO forever in the 20th century; they don’t stay on subscription streaming in the 21st century either. You didn’t subscribe to HBO in 1990 to own movies; you subscribed to have access to a wide variety of ever changing material. You don’t subscribe to a streaming service to own content; you subscribe to have access to a wide variety of offerings at a fixed price.

-digital rentals, which is the 21st century equivalent of a 20th century video store. You didn’t rent a movie at Blockbuster in 1990 expecting to keep it forget; you paid a set fee to watch that specific title for a limited period. Digital rentals function the same way, only, iTunes doesn’t run out of copies of a new release the way a video store would.

-digital purchases, which is the 21st century equivalent of purchasing a physical item like a video tape or disc. You pay a one-time fee and have access to the item in perpetuity. While there might be an occasional and extremely rare case where a customer might lose access to a purchase, these concerns are almost always overstated and overblown - it’s far more likely that a physical tape or disc will develop a defect rendering it unplayable than it is that a digital purchase will no longer play.

Unfortunately, Man, as you’ve pointed out, in these discussions people who want to advocate for physical media and against discs often rush to compare owning a disc with subscribing to a subscription service, which is not a reasonable or equivalent comparison. Compare buying a disc to buying a movie on iTunes. Compare subscribing to HBO with subscribing to Netflix.

I think the part that some people may find off putting is that this isn’t an anguished or drawn out thought process for the general public. For the general public, which does not include movie and technology enthusiasts like me and you and anyone who takes time to post on an Internet forum, this is generally a settled issue and has been for about a decade. Most people aren’t looking to own most things in perpetuity. They simply wish to find something to watch that will entertain them, and when they finish one thing, are more eager to move on to the next thing than rewatch the thing they’ve already seen. A subscription streaming service (or membership to several) fills this need for the vast majority of viewers.

I don’t see the purpose in trying to convince people who are finding their needs met by whatever works for them that those needs are in fact not being met. That’s a losing argument. Subscription streaming revenue dwarfs both physical media sales and digital rentals/purchases because it works for most people. It’s doing that kind of business because most people don’t want or need to own discs.

Rather than fighting a Quixotic battle trying to convince a majority of satisfied customers that they’re wrong, I think it makes more sense to simply accept that we’re not “most people” and carry on making the spending decisions that make sense for us. Rather than using straw man arguments to justify personal preferences and investments in our hobby, isn’t it easier and less anguished to simply say, “this is how I like to enjoy my hobby?”.

I like to buy discs. My family and friends no longer do. This does not cause me to lose sleep. I like to rent and purchases digital titles too, and most of my friends and family don’t, and that doesn’t cause me to lose sleep either. I like to use subscription streaming, which is what most of my friends and family prefer to do, and that doesn’t cause me to lose sleep either. If my friends and family and I are discussing a movie or TV show, we’re not talking about what technical method we used to access that content, we’re talking about the content itself. At the end of the day, that’s all that really matters to me.

 

[Wayne Klein]

If I’m going to watch a movie casually and probably never watch it aga(n, I stream it. If it’s a mo Ie I like a lot and want to see in the highest quality possible, I buy it on physical media.

as to digital downloads, sure I’d do those too.

 

[Sam Posten]

Taking a devils advocate stance against myself I can understand that the disk diehards want to impress on us “you fools! The more digital succeeds the faster shiny plastic disks will disappear. And when they go we will be subject to lossy audio and video”. I get those fears completely. But:

A. a handful of enthusiasts isn’t going to save disks, and I say that despite vinyl having a comeback

B. Streaming / digital buying quality has increased every year as bandwidth and compression and display/audio tech have improved, there is no reason to believe that will stop.

C. I’m not worried about big brother turning off my access or the internet going away. Especially not with $.99 movie buys and moderately priced subscription services

D. As much as I want Song of the South on a service or to buy, I’m willing to concede that the infrastructure as a whole is solid and that and a few other titles are early casualties. The fight for those is not over

If you live in fear of what could happen you will miss out on all the good that is already here.

 

[JohnRice]

I generally avoid these discussions, but who has considered this?

Home ownership of movies, and I mean home ownership as a truly realistic option only first appeared less than 25 years ago. Yeah, there was VHS and LD, but those were extremely expensive and very little was sold retail. LD a little more, but selection was extremely limited. It was almost exclusively a rental format. DVD wasn't actually released until 1997, and it didn't really start becoming a purchase format for several years. Then, there was the cost. We forget that anything on a DVD release in the '90s was generally $20. Remember the first DVD release of Star Trek: The Next Generation? $100 Per Season! Hardly mainstream. You can buy all seven seasons, on Blu-Ray for that much now.

I spent 15 years doing architectural photography. I shot houses with $100K+ home theaters. Not one of them actually owned a movie library that was even 1/20 of what I had. We are the exception. The idea that the movie industry can't survive without a format that's only existed for 20 years and is still the exception is absurd.

 

[Carl David]

Reading the OP, this genuinely strikes me as a thinly veiled political rant.

I agree with you that it is a rant to some extent.

Can't really argue with that.

But political?

That I don't agree with.

 

[JohnRice]

I agree with you that it is a rant to some extent.

Can't really argue with that.

But political?

That I don't agree with.

It was packed with political dog whistle terms. And forum moderation disagrees with you.

That's all I have to say.