How come all channel stereo sounds better than DPL II?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Marc Go, Sep 8, 2001.

  1. Marc Go

    Marc Go Agent

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    I just purchased an Onkyo TX-DS595 and have been very happy overall with it. I have a 5.1 home theater setup with Polk RM 6600 speakers. The only issue I have is that in my (newbie) opinion, when I am watching TV or listening to the FM radio, all channel stereo actually sounds better than Dolby Pro Logic II. I switch between DPL II movie (TV) and DPL II Music (FM) but still the all channel stereo sounds better. The TV logic DSP sounds better than the DPL II as well (TV). When I use FM stereo the DPL II sounds better than when I am watching TV with it. I just think that this is strange considering that the DPL II is supposed to be great, and I brought the 595 because it offered this feature. I cannot use the DPL II on a DVD so I have no comments on that arena. Anyone else have any opinions on this? Thanks.
     
  2. ErichH

    ErichH Screenwriter

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    I noticed that 5ch stereo souned better with CD music on my friends Denon 1802 .
    He doesn't have his AT&T cable in the reciever yet , so I'll be very curious to hear pro logic programming when he does . Before we were able to switch his DVD player to DTS , we listened to a DVD(Fifth Element) for a few minutes in ProLogic2 , and it wasn't that bad . I think we're all hopefull for improvement with Sat & Cable movies that don't feed DD .
    Good Luck
    Eric
     
  3. Nick G

    Nick G Stunt Coordinator

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    Marc, in my view there is no "right" listening mode. Music is about listener pleasure. You experimented and found what sounds best to you. Thats all that matters. Enjoy!
    Regards, Nick
     
  4. Saurav

    Saurav Cinematographer

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  5. Eugene Hsieh

    Eugene Hsieh Supporting Actor

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    I find DPLII sounds good (and often "better" than plain 2-channel to my ears) only if you're sitting in the right spot.
    I find 4-channel stereo sounds better than DPLII when seating positions are problematic.
     
  6. Glen_L

    Glen_L Stunt Coordinator

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    Since 5 channel stereo generally duplicates the front sound to the surrounds and mixes the center, I'd be surprised if it isn't a good bit louder than DPL II. If you have an SPL meter, see if you can level match the two modes and decide if you still like 5 channel better.
     
  7. Eugene Hsieh

    Eugene Hsieh Supporting Actor

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  8. Wes

    Wes Screenwriter

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    It is not that your 5 channel stereo sounds better, it only sounded perhaps louder. 5 channel places all the sounds in all the speakers while trying to give a stereo effect. So to listen to a rear speaker in 5 channel yes it will sound like a normal channel. I do know as well if you listen to PL or PL II's rear speaker it will not contain the same sounds as the 5 channel, PL II is directing the correct info to achieve a true to life live performance sound field. If you listen to PL, PL II, or 5 channel up close to one of the speakers (I don't care which one) it will not sound correct. Correctly listening to music will entail you to sit directly in the sweet spot and of course have the system set up correctly with a correctly matched speaker system. The center channel is the most critical speaker in a good system and this is were a lot of people miss the boat. That center speaker will carry a good 80-90% of the vocals and should be up to the task musically. You would send Jim Fosgate to an early grave if he read that 5 channel sounds better than PL II.
    You can listen to and like 5 channel all you want but just so you know it is not correct and nor will it achieve a true imaged sound field!
    Wes
     
  9. Dalton

    Dalton Screenwriter

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    I have found that I like 6 ch. stereo better than PL II Music mode on my Marantz SR7200. But for DSS i really like PL II Movie mode. IMHO, it really sounds much better than regular Pro logic. I guess it is all just personal preference." To each his own" as they say.
     
  10. Saurav

    Saurav Cinematographer

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  11. Wes

    Wes Screenwriter

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    quote: Which means that DPL2 is "better" only if that's what you're interested in, recreating a "true to life" soundfield from a stereo source. One could extend your argument and say that stereo is "better" to DPL2, because the sounds are coming from exactly where they were intended to come - the speakers in front of you. Would you agree to that? [/quote]
    No, Not really, With two channel music with a correctly set up system you are trying to create a true to life sound field, not just two speaker set up in front of you. This also means that you are now going to produce a Phantom center and perhaps a phantom ambiance behind you. PL II does the same but with decoding and carefully set up 5 to 6 channels of sound. Is PL II better than Stereo? This could be left up to personal taste, but again Jim Fosgate spent years to built PL II for music and he feels its better!
    quote: Again, I would argue that the only way to "correctly" listen to a stereo source is through two speakers. Just as the only way to "correctly" listen to a mono source is through one speaker, and a multi-channel source is through multiple speakers.[/quote]
    Again, I could put two speakers infront of me, heck I could even sit on them and it would not sound good. Its all about imaging. That's what audio is all about. I have not stated PL II is better than stereo, only that PL II is placing the imaging in the correct place in the room compared to 5 channel and 2 channel. Close your eyes while listening to music, see if 5 channels places the drum set back behind the main vocals? Is the bass up on stage next to the singer? Is the acoustic guitar off to the right side of the stage or does the 5 channel mode place it in the audience like I know it does. Sure you could place the system on 5 channel and do your Sunday cleaning around the house but if you are going to denounce PL II just because it does not sound the same as the front channels, please listen closer to your music!
    Wes
    [Edited last by Wes on September 09, 2001 at 10:33 PM]
     
  12. DanC

    DanC Stunt Coordinator

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    I have the same receiver and speakers...nice choice [​IMG]
    Dan
     
  13. Jerome Grate

    Jerome Grate Cinematographer

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    It is a matter of preference, if you like 5 channel stereo, then we know how we are going to watch the football games when we come to your house. [​IMG] I heard 5 channel stereo on an Onkyo and I chose the HK for Logic 7 because it appeared to be to 5.1 than 5 channel stereo.
    ------------------
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  14. Wes

    Wes Screenwriter

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    If I'm not mistaken most NFL games are recorded to much expense to the broadcaster in Dolby Surround, So once again 5 channel would be the incorrect way to watch/listen to a game! [​IMG]
    Wes
     
  15. Rob Roth

    Rob Roth Stunt Coordinator

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    You guys can argue theory all you want, but there are two variables that you can't control- only adapt to:
    1.) The listening situation. Rooms differ. Mine is quite longish (30 feet) and having 3 pairs of speakers plus center channel gives a nice, natural hall ambience in 7.2 "stereo". However, I found I had to reduce the side surrounds by 1 dB relative to the 'optimal' setting for films. This is easily done with a macro or a preset.
    2.) Mixes vary greatly. Some intimate jazz stuff benefits from 2 or 3 channel, some classical is best in 4 channel using the back surrounds, some rock is best all channels driven!!! My advice is to get a full featured pre/pro or receiver that allows each mix to be recreated in you listening space the way you like it. I further advise having a direct or bypass mode available for 2 channel pure listening- it allows you to have a very good 2 channnel system as the secret heart of your HT system.
     
  16. Eugene Hsieh

    Eugene Hsieh Supporting Actor

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  17. Saurav

    Saurav Cinematographer

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  18. Wes

    Wes Screenwriter

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    quote: This is funny - no, I am not trying to create a phantom anything, I have a pretty much seamless soundstage extending all across the width of my room, in front of me, and that's from my two speakers. [/quote]
    Well I hate to tell you if you have a seamless sound stage and only running two speakers then there is quite a lot of phantom imaging going on! A phantom channel is were you could swear you heard a particular instrument in a location where there is no physical speaker!
    Saurav, I never placed your name in that sentence, it was in reference to PL II vs all channel stereo.
    For the most part I'm just pulling your chains at the same time just trying to make aware how music should sound, which is true life. Now I just had a thought, If you wish to have the illusion that you are standing on stage playing in the band all channel stereo now would be the correct mode to run the music in!
    Wes
    [Edited last by Wes on September 11, 2001 at 01:02 AM]
     
  19. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    marc -
    which do you like? which sounds better to you? that's all that matters...
    ------------------
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  20. Vin

    Vin Supporting Actor

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    quote: Now I just had a thought, If you wish to have the illusion that you are standing on stage playing in the band all channel stereo now would be the correct mode to run the music in![/quote]
    Wes, by no means am I piling on but just don't see how the word correct comes into play here. You've obviously put a lot of thought into this subject and you've decided what sounds best to you. Well, some of us have also done that and have come to different conclusions, i.e., there's no correct way, it's just a matter of personal preference....as they say, whatever floats your boat. [​IMG]
    Cheers
    ------------------
    [Edited last by Vin on September 11, 2001 at 06:47 AM]
     

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