How Can Cy Young Possibly Have Had 19 Saves In His Career?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by David Von Pein, Aug 2, 2002.

  1. David Von Pein

    David Von Pein Producer

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    Seeing as how no major-league baseball pitcher EVER was credited with a "Save" until the year 1969.....can someone explain the fact that the great CY YOUNG is shown with a career count of 19 saves....even though his career ended 58 years BEFORE the save was even introduced!??
    This, of course, isn't limited to just Mr. Young's statistics. All pitchers that ever played in the majors have had their records retroactively changed to show saves that they WOULD have been credited with (had the saves rule been in effect during their playing days).
    I would think it would have been nearly impossible to re-construct every game in ML history, and award saves where warranted. How was this done? And I was wondering how many YEARS it took to do this? And the bigger question: WHY in the wide, wide world of sports was it done??!!
    IMO, it's STUPID!!
    The pitchers in the 1920s and 1930s did NOT earn a save at the time of those games, because the rule was NON-EXISTENT! So WHY do we now show them with saves in their stats? Very dumb!!!
    Based on this type of toying around with past records....I guess now we should have to re-evaluate EVERY game in history due to the fact that the official strike zone has changed multiple times since the 1960s! Because a whole bunch of those pitches that were "Balls" in 1905 are most certainly "Strikes" today! So, let's change everybody's stats again! Lunacy!
    Anybody else think this is ridiculous??
    BTW.....
    HERE'S AN INTERESTING ARTICLE ON THE "INVENTOR" OF THE SAVE.
     
  2. Patrick_S

    Patrick_S Producer
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  3. David Von Pein

    David Von Pein Producer

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  4. Agee Bassett

    Agee Bassett Supporting Actor

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  5. Agee Bassett

    Agee Bassett Supporting Actor

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    BTW, while we're at it, lets also mention that the pitchers' statistic ERA didn't exist prior to 1911 (which, barring recreation, would cost Mordecai "Three-Finger" Brown a close second place finish for lowest ever for a single season; 1.04, in 1904 [min. 162 innings.]).
     
  6. Bill Slack

    Bill Slack Supporting Actor

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    I've never seen stats CHANGED, except for factual reasons. For instance, Ted Williams .406 season would actually be ~.417 today, because of the sack-fly rule.

    Now, if saves had existed in the earler half of the 1900's, it would be one thing, but they didn't. So we just add that stat to their line, without have any real effect (where as using a globaly consistent sack-fly rule would make records very difficult to deal with, since the batting average leader for the year could end up changing, etc.)

    Stats doesn't just do it to make the players look better on paper or anything, they do it to better reflect a pitchers performance without sacrificing any historical signifiance.

    I'm sure they would list a seperate average for the sack-fly rule, but it's fairly minor thing, and the relative to league percentage is already generally listed. Though, I don't know if anyone has ever done an exhaustine sack-fly calculation throughout the ages, though I believe a pretty complete historical analysis of saves HAS been done. At least with saves you can figure it via box scores (which I'm should be entered into a database already); all the sack-flys would have to be calculated based on the actual game stories that appeared in the paper.
     
  7. David Von Pein

    David Von Pein Producer

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  8. Marvin

    Marvin Screenwriter

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  9. John Welch

    John Welch Stunt Coordinator

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    Hold is not an official statistic.Yet.

     
  10. Brook K

    Brook K Lead Actor

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    You can thank the people at www.retrosheet.com for their tireless efforts in compiling all known box scores and data analysis. This has given researchers an invaluable aid in player evaluations and comparisons. It was in the last year or two that they discovered Babe Ruth should have been credited with 2 additional walks, increasing his all-time record (since surpassed by Rickey Henderson).
    David, you should find the answer to all your questions there.
     
  11. Brian Perry

    Brian Perry Cinematographer

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