how bout them dells? (1 Viewer)

[Joe Szott]

I'm waiting for the DVD-R drives to go on fire sale again, then I'm buying a nice new Dell to stretch it's legs out on Half Life 2

 

[Ken Chan]

Don't companies that put together custom PC's from parts for you charge a whole lot more to start with? I'm talking companies like alienware.

Dunno about Alienware specifically, but those boutique companies use high-end components (not the cheapest ones). I've even seen some of them offer overclocked video cards, fully tested and guaranteed, not something you'd find normally. They may also have custom cases, some of them really nice and/or extravagant. The system is very neat; everything is bundled and tied. The OS may be tweaked for speed; something you could do yourself in five or ten minutes if you knew where everything was, but the point is they do it for you. And for all that, yes, they charge a heck of premium. Whether it's worth it is an individual choice.

Dell is not your regular beige box assemler. They have custom hinged cases and power supplies, and processor shrouds with heatsinks instead of fans. But as mentioned, their service is lacking. Based on a recent experience, I would advise that:

If the unit arrives damaged and you call to exchange it, do not let the customer service rep transfer you to tech support. Tech support will try to fix it, or send someone to service it. You might try stressing the word "exchange", or ask to be transferred to someone that actually knows the company policy, which allows a front-line rep to make a straight exchange. Note that although their service opens at 7am Central, their "escalated" Resolution department doesn't open until 8.

Should the replacement unit arrive without the return label, when you call customer service (again) to arrange pickup, do not let the rep use the automated request system, which occasionally "doesn't work". Insist that the rep call Airborne and get the confirmation and airbill number.

//Ken

 

[Wayne Bundrick]

Or, if the unit arrives undamaged, none of the above will apply. Enjoy!

 

[Ken_WI]

Dell makes good, solid, reliable PCs at excellent prices, but they do skimp on some parts and have non-standard cases and other parts that makes them hard to upgrade.

I have been using Monarch Computer Systems for my last 2 PCs, and they are excellent.

http://www.monarchcomputer.com

If you want to "design your own" while actually letting Monarch build it, they have a huge array of parts to choose from - you can pretty much get ANY hardware and have Monarch build, test, and configure it. Even if you order it without an operating system, they will install XP during the test and burn-in phase. The PCs are packed well and shipped quickly, and the work inside the case is always neat and orderly, cables routed properly and tied out of the way, a CD-R with all the drivers for your hardware is included, and all extra parts are sent along with all manuals, etc.

My file server gave up the ghost last week. Rather than mess around with fixing a P3-500, I went to the Monarch site and they were running a special $369 deal for an Athlon XP-2000, 256 RAM, 40 GB HDD, video, 6x USB 2.0 ports, 52x CDRW, video, sound, and nic are on the MIS motherboard. I doubled the RAM for an extra $30, and the machine arrived yesterday. A very sweet machine, and with no PCI cards installed, the case is virtually empty and stays nice and cool. I have a good soundcard and video adapter I could use, but for a file server the ones on the mobo work fine.

Do check out Monarch before ordering your next PC. Quality systems all the way, 1 YR parts & labor on everything (3 YR for an extra $49), and they even send a FedEx return authorization just in case there is any problem. A joy to deal with all the way 'round.

 

[Tom Lowden]

Over the past few years, I have paid my dues supporting Dell, Gateway, Micron, Compaq, IBM, and home-built pc's etc. in government environments. I worked for the Air Force supporting their users & servers and now work for a state agency in IT. Whenever possible, I still go to Dell first when we're going to buy PC's or servers. I've dealt with all of these companies, and I just think the Dell machines we've bought are the best built and most reliable day in and day out. I have needed their support on occasion, and have never been disappointed. Anytime I've needed a replacement part, I usually get it w/in a day or two.

 

[Robert Ross]

I currently have a Dell and I havn't had one problem with it. But I'm wanting to do a complete upgrade on it and was thinking of just building a whole new PC since I've heard these are tricky to upgrade. My question is, what is tricky about it? I've heard they use proprietary motherboards and you can't upgrade them, but other than that is there anything else to worry about? I have a 2.0 ghz right now and I'm happy with it, but I'll be upgrading just about everything else. I want to get two 80 gig HDs in a RAID connection, replace either my DVD or CD-RW drive with a DVD-RW, upgrade memory, and upgrade my video card. Will I have any problems upgrading any of that?

 

[Keith_R]

I just ordered my new Dell 2350 PC last night. I got a P4 2.2GHZ/30GB HDD/256MB. The only problem with it is that it is all integrated but that doesn't concern me because it will last me a few years, probably at least through college, like my current HP got me through High school. The computer cost $648 which to me is an excellent price considering the amount of speed and capability I'll be getting with my new PC. Good value if you can't build a PC, IMO.

 

[Colin Dunn]

Another thing about upgrading Dells: Sometimes they use non-standard parts. A lot of Dells use a Dell-proprietary power supply that looks, on the surface, like a standard ATX power supply. But if you compare the wires on the connectors you will see they are wired in a different sequence than a standard ATX power supply (though the jack shape is IDENTICAL).

I don't like proprietary parts, so I will keep building/upgrading my own PC...

 

[RandyObert]

There was a time when Dell was a great way to go. They used to have great service and product, now they are just the same as any other maker.

With very few exceptions you are best to find a local builder (most any pc shop) and go that way. IF you order a system and it craps out you will get to pay shipping charges on top of being without your system for a week or more by using Dell, Gateway and many others. A local shop will usually bust their rumps to make you happy including loaners.

All the big makers are doing all they can to milk the consumer at this point to survive and frankly they are killing themselves by doing this. HP and Compaq have turned into garbage IMHO.

 

[Robert Dunnill]

No reason to do anything else as far as I can see.

I worked in a Dell shop, and many of the machines had integrated video (which is why some of the fellows were issued clones as a perk).

Another minus was that they tended to be non-upgradeable, which meant rebuying the whole box when the CPU became obsolete.

RD

 

[Gabriel_Lam]

The newer Dells tend to use pretty standard off-the-shelf parts. Virtually all the desktops are on standard ATX power supplies now. Only the lowest end or micro-sized ones use integrated video, the vast majority do not. Dell's standard desktop warranty is not send in, it's on-site, so you don't pay shipping charges and you're not without your system for a week.

In terms of upgradability (is that a word?), you can change the motherboard, processor, PCI cards, AGP card, hard drives, memory, OS, and more on the vast majority of them (again, mostly it's just the micro-systems that are hard to upgrade).

Just dispelling some myths associated with current Dell models.

 

[Scott L]

"standard ATX power supplies" can mean anything though, how many crappy ones are out there.. too many to count. Dell puts 250 watt PSU's into their P4 systems, if people do some major upgrading that's one element that will be a problem.

 

[Gabriel_Lam]

Dell rates their power supplies in terms of average power, not peak. When you compare this 250w rating to others, often, you're talking an output closer to 340w supplies.

In terms of power supplies, and especially when we're talking about for power video cards (and also for CPU stability), we're mainly concerned with the output of the +3.3v and the +5v rails. Though it's easy to fudge the numbers when we talk about "max output" of a power supply or "manufacturer's rating," when we talk about the +3.3v plus +5v rails, we can compare apples to apples.

The 8300's "250w" power supply has a 170watt +3.3v & +5v rail.

The 4550's "250w" power supply is not quite as stout at 150watts for the +3.3v & +5v.

Let's check out the PC Power & Cooling 300ATX-PFC. It's their 300w power supply from their "High Performance" line. The +3.3v & +5v are rated at Less than 150w

Enermax is another highly respected brand. We can take a look across their entire 300w line (EG301). The +3.3v and +5v rails are rated at 170w.

Antec's PP-303X, a 300w power supply beats out the 8300's 250w just BARELY at 180w.

Kingwin is another popular power supply company, though not as reputable as the above 3. Their 350w power supply puts out 175w on those rails, again, barely beating out the 8300's 250w.

Perhaps the most telling is Sparkle. They're probably the oldest and most reputable of power supply companies. They actually produce the power supplies that are later rebranded (ie. PC Power & Cooling). Their entire line of 300w power supplies (and there are a load of them) are rated between 150w and 175w on the +3.3v and +5v rails.

 

[Scott L]

When you compare this 250w rating to others, often, you're talking an output closer to 340w supplies.

Kinda stretching it..

My 300 watt Fortron (which is just a rebranded Sparkle) actually has 200 watts on the +3.3v & +5v rails. Same with the Sparkle I looked at. I know 170 is surely ok for a basic system (also the very minimum of what's recommended), which is why I said if you plan to do some major upgrading the PSU might give some problems.

Unfortunately PC Power & Cooling and Enermax just ain't what they used to be (I have had both). Antec however is still on the ball, the only 300 watt PSU I see from them on Newegg supplies 220w on those rails.

 

[Gabriel_Lam]

Oh I absolutely agree with you there are definitely some higher powered PS's available. However, the 250w unit in there is nothing to sneeze at. It's reliable and stout for an OEM unit. I recently purchased a Dimension 8300 and downgraded the power supply to the one found in the 4550, because of the slightly quieter fan. Though this system is by no means a cutting edge powerhouse, it still has a reasonable amount of speed:

• Intel i875 chipset motherboard with 6 USB 2.0 Ports, built in 10/100 NIC, onboard 5.1 sound
• Intel Pentium 4 2.66Ghz Processor
• 1GB Dual Channel DDR SDRAM (4 sticks of 256MB)
• 1 Western Digital Caviar SE 120GB 7200RPM 8MB Buffer ATA HD
• 1 Seagate Barracuda ATA IV 40GB 7200RPM 8MB Buffer ATA HD
• NEC DVD+R/RW Burner
• ATI Radeon 9700 Pro 128MB 8x (older non rev 1.3 card, higher voltage requirements)
• M-Audio Revolution 7.1 Sound Card
• LifeView Flyvideo 3000/FM TV Tuner Card
• USB Keyboard & Mouse

It's not stacked to the gills, but there's a reasonable amount of stuff in that box (it's my secondary system, the HTPC). No problems with power as of yet. Still have a Zalman 300w PS sitting in the corner, unused. I've gone through my fair share of PCP&C, Enermax, Antec, Sparkle, and Vantec supplies as well. But unless you have way way more than I have in this box, the stock PS is easily adequite. In fact, some of my friends have loaded their systems up with the 3Ghz processor, more drives, filled the 5.25" bays, and are still ok.

 

[Joe Szott]

Gabe,

I would hate to see your machine when you do "stack it to the gills"! I guess working at Got|apex must up one's expectations, but that machine is crazy fine my man.

I'm looking forward to getting one of the Dells on your licked site (from here) later this summer. Pretty much driven by HL2, so maybe in August there will be the most bang for the buck.

I suspect my current system just won't cut it:

* Radeon 7200
* 512 200 MHz RAM
* 1 GHz Athlon

Hehe

 

[Steve_Ch]

Gabe,
I don't expect to see any PS problem, as your kind of setup is commonly seen with people at the Dell support forum, and yes, you are right, there are definitely more "stacked" Dell running on their standard "low W" PS.

 

[Eric_E]

I just wanted to share my experience so that people get a chance to see both the good side and the bad. In October 2000, I bought an Inspiron 5000e notebook from Dell. P3 800 Mhz, 128 MB RAM, 20 GB HD, DVD-ROM. I won't mention the price because it would just seem absolutely ludicrous now.

Anyway, after phoning in my order to Dell I noticed that my credit card had been charged for several options I specifically told the operator I did not want - among them an extended warranty and an extra battery. It took me half a dozen phone calls and much waiting for the situation to be cleared up. I didn't appreciate the way Dell had tried to tack on an extra $200 to the price of my system.

When the computer finally arrived at my door, I set it up, turned it on, and.... nothing. My laptop had been shipped with a dead hard drive. Sigh. More phone calls, much grumbling. They overnighted me a new HD but I didn't appreciate being shipped one that was DOA in the first place.

A week later, the DVD-ROM died - it wouldn't read any CDs or DVDs - it would just spin. Again, a new one was overnighted to me. But, strike two. A few weeks later, the DVD-ROM started skipping and refused to read many audio CDs.

A couple of months ago, the replacement HD died and I lost everything. Since the computer was out of warranty, I had to pay for a new drive to the tune of $140.

Now, I realize that laptops are usually more fragile than desktops, but I hardly ever took the laptop anywhere except to and from college a few times. Don't even get me started on the stuck pixels in the display and the unbearably loud fan. Anyway, this computer was the worst purchase I've ever made. I don't know if their newer laptops have made considerable improvement, but that Inspiron was just a piece of s***.

So, Dell isn't infallible. Not everything they ship is great.

 

[Christop_Holmes]

dell's are good systems. defineatly worth the money.

 

[Joe Szott]

Eric,

They have made lots of improvements lately. Not the least of which is using more off the shelf type components, like standard motherboards and regular video cards. So the Dell you buy today tends to be more robust and upgradable than what they were selling 2 years ago. That's why these systems are so hot right now, for the price it is a steal and is exactly what you would put together yourself anyway.