Horizontal Resolution

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Cecil, Jan 7, 2004.

  1. Cecil

    Cecil Auditioning

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    First some background. I recently bought a Sony KV-40XBR800 under the impression that it was a "high definition ready" monitor. It was advertized as having 1080i capability which I interperted to mean that it would properly display a 1920x1080i HD format. I believe if the average "Joe Blow" was asked if the Sony being shown in the store was HD ready he would certainly say yes. Since buying this TV I have attempted to determine what the actual horizontal resolution of this set is.

    I have an EE background so I am very familar with the factors that can limit the horizontal resolution but the design details are not easily obtainable. I have searched this and other forums with limited success. The best that I can determine is that the pitch is maybe .77mm which yields approximately 1060 vertical lines or horizontal pixels. Sony advertizes an enhancement mode for SDTV signals that increases the apparent resolution by a factor of 2 in both vertical and horizontal. Since SDTV is suppose to have 640 horizontal pixels, I do not see how that is possible if my estimate of the horizontal pixels is correct.

    The reason I am almost fanatical about this is that I bought this set under the assumption that it could display a true HDTV signal. I do not want to have to buy another anytime soon.

    BTW i have read the several threads on the issue of display resolution. My believe now is that we consumers have been mislead by the advertizing, perhaps even illegally. I notice now that Sony does not specific state my TV is an HDTV capable monitor.

    Does anyone have any feedback on this subject??
     
  2. John S

    John S Producer

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    Well if you feed it 1080i and it actually displays a picture, I think legally they can be technically correct.

    I do think many TV's are somewhat deceptive even evasive on what this actually means when it comes to pixels.

    If you feed it some great 1080i and it looks beautiful, I certainly would not sweat the real numbers.

    As an engineer, I know this sort of thing drives you crazy though. If your unhappy with the picture, you may still be able to return the set.
     
  3. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Most sets and displays can't adequately resolve what you might feed them anyway. I don't really know how that works with direct-view sets, but most RPTVs can't do 1080i (CRT-based).

    the electronic capabilities, and the actual resolving capabilities often differ significantly.
     
  4. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    Yes, this is a high def-capable set. No, it cannot reproduce the full resolution of HDTV; no consumer direct-view set can. But it's still high def.

    For that matter, only a few high-end front projectors can reproduce the full resolution of high-def TV. Also, Toshiba's LCoS-based RPTV could (though the model is in production limbo presently).
     
  5. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    Jack,

    I was under the impression that the very few crt based rptvs with 9" guns were also capable of full resolution HD?
     
  6. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    Yes, if they have good 9in guns, and are sufficiently well setup, you could get 1080 most likely. You're pushing it usually, to get 1080 out of 8in guns though.
     
  7. Cecil

    Cecil Auditioning

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    Jack:
    I understand this subject has been discussed here before but I think a better response is needed. To me for a monitor to be HD ready it MUST be capable of displaying one of the defined HD formats. Never mind that the format is not readily available or is degraded in transmission for whatever reason. I would feel (do feel??) deceived if I bought what was clearly being pitched as a HD ready monitor and then six months or a year later the same company comes out with a "true" HD ready monitor. Should not we as consumers insist on being given the facts and not just the sales person or ad stressing how much better this supposely HD ready monitor looks compares to a SDTV? Buying the set because it looks better than something else is one thing but buying it with the assumption that is capable of displaying a true HD format is different IMO. Yes technology is changing but there should be some expectations given common usage of the term "HD ready monitor". Two or three years ago buyers had to be made aware of the fact that basically on "HD monitors" were available and separate receivers/converters had to be bought/rented to see HDTV. But if the monitor was not capable of properly displaying the true HD format by design then the consumer was being deceived.

    Is anyone aware of any potential legal threats to the TV manufactures??

    Does anyone know the answer to my original question concerning resolution or even pitch for the aperture grill??

    Thanks. This forum is a valuable resource.
     
  8. John S

    John S Producer

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    So what TV do you think is not displaying a true HD format???

    I am sort of confused... All HDTV monitors display at least 480p EDTV, and 1080i HDTV, in the true HD aspect ratio.

    Are you unhappy with your HD picture quality?
    If you think it can be imporved upon, you shoudl definetly buy a different one.

    1080i looks amazing on my new HDTV Ready set, what culd be gained at that point buy worry'n about, the CRT gun size, or the actual pixels and/or maximum horizontle line count ect..ect...


    I think to get what you want, your definetly going to have to pay a heep'n price for it. but as you said, I can't even get the real stats for my set. I'll just trust my eyes, I suppose and be happy.
     
  9. Cecil

    Cecil Auditioning

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    John:
    My issue is that this TV DOES NOT display the 1080i format in the horizontal dimension. It does generate over twice as many scan lines as SDTV (480i) but the horizontal resolution is not equal to the defined 1080i resolution. If I had been aware of this I may have held off buying a "HD ready monitor". Sure the picture looks great comparede to SDTV but how would the picture look with a true HD monitor displaying the full 1080i HD format?? The horizontal resolution is approximately about 1/2 of what it should be with the 1080i HD format. Sony did come out with the 34xbr910 which has a much smaller pitch for the aperture grill which provides for a better picture as noted by people on this forum. I prefer the 4:3 format for now so I did not consider the 16:9 format of the 34xbr910. I did not research this issue the way I should have. I was taken in by the ads saying "HD ready monitor". Sony can very easily make the 40xbr800 tube using the super fine pitch of the 34xbr910. Can they produce a tube with a pitch required for the true 1080i HD format? I don't know. I guess I do not want my new TV to be technologically obsolete within a year!!!
     
  10. John S

    John S Producer

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    As long as your set has a native 1080i 16:9 squeeze or 16:9 Native full res mode, I think it will hold its own for the life of the product.

    What your talking about here is seen in nearly every HDTV made right now.
     
  11. SeanA

    SeanA Second Unit

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    Cecil,

    I understand your frustration. This same question bothered me for some time after I purchased a Sony 34" XBR800 about a year ago. I too thought the horizontal resolution would coincide in the proper ratio with the 1080i vertical resolution. I recall being told that the horizontal resolution is not defined for HDTV. The set just needs to be able to do 720p or 1080i lines vertically. I still don't quite buy into that definition since that would mean the set could have a single line of horizontal resolution, and that wouldn't look too good. [​IMG] It would seem the industry needs to define some minimum standards for the horizontal resolution as well.

    That said, I still love the HD picture from my Sony XBR800, but I do wish I had waited a bit and bought the XBR910 (but I did not know it was coming out at the time). The XBR910 would be much closer to what you and I define as HD. If I were you and you can still return the 40" Sony, I would trade it on the 34" XBR910, but than I use my TV primarily for watching DVDs. BTW, I am an engineer (mechanical) too. Maybe this resolution issue just bothers us engineers because of our "detail" nature !?!?
     

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