Pre-Order Horizon: An American Saga Chapter 1 (4k UHD) (Blu-ray) Available for Preorder (1 Viewer)

[Bryan^H]

I saw Part II some months ago. I thought it was better than part one. If you liked part one you'll like part two. And you are correct. Like part one, part two just stops. There's no dramatic structure. There's no climax. I believe that's one reason it didn't do well in the theater.

I actually watched part I again on streaming and thought it played MUCH better because that's what it was ultimately conceived and shot for--streaming--regardless of whatever else Costner wants to believe or wishes had come to pass. He didn't put in the lion's share of the money. The other money was contingent on certain conditions conducive to streaming--conditions that make it theatrically untenable.

I hope part two is released on streaming. My feeling is they'll end up taking a tax break on it (if they haven't already) and never release it. I'll be happy to be wrong about that.

Part three was halted after eight days of shooting; that pretty much tells me all I need to know.

Don't you think some streaming service will rescue it and fund the remaining films? Netflix possibly?

 

[Museum Pieces]

Don't you think some streaming service will rescue it and fund the remaining films? Netflix possibly?

I think if part III was shot, probably.

If they are willing to play the long, long game, maybe. It's hard to know without seeing the Netflix numbers. I hope so. It would be a lot to recoup via streaming and other outlets. I think if this was six or seven years ago, I would be more inclined to say yes. But the way Netflix cancels very good series after one season leaves me doubtful. If it's still in the top five after three weeks or so, maybe we'll see part II. Beyond that, I'll leave it to others to be more optimistic.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

I saw Part II some months ago. I thought it was better than part one. If you liked part one you'll like part two. And you are correct. Like part one, part two just stops. There's no dramatic structure. There's no climax. I believe that's one reason it didn't do well in the theater.

I actually watched part I again on streaming and thought it played MUCH better because that's what it was ultimately conceived and shot for--streaming--regardless of whatever else Costner wants to believe or wishes had come to pass. He didn't put in the lion's share of the money. The other money was contingent on certain conditions conducive to streaming--conditions that make it theatrically untenable.

I hope part two is released on streaming. My feeling is they'll end up taking a tax break on it (if they haven't already) and never release it. I'll be happy to be wrong about that.

Part three was halted after eight days of shooting; that pretty much tells me all I need to know.

Yes, he has to have some kind of backing to get three and four off the ground. I believe streaming services are the place to find that backing. It does appear that the first film did find a large audience on streaming and honestly, yes, it seems an easier route to an audience than theatrical release. I have to admit that even though I think this kind of film provides a wonderful "old fashioned" theatrical experience...well...at least for someone of my age, most people don't want to traipse out to a cinema to see it.

I think the big wide-open spaces, the giant vistas, the characters dwarfed by their surroundings, it plays incredible in a cinema. Lawrence of Arabia is sort of a Western and as such the real way to see it, to really see it, is on a giant screen in a cinema. It's where this kind of picture was meant to live and breathe.

I do think he conceived the films to play in cinemas because Costner also loves the genre and remembers it likely in the same way I do. The film also seems made like a throwback Western, like that is part of the intent. So, I do think he wanted it to play in cinemas because that is the place to see a big sprawling picture like this.

However, as you've said, the audience for this, probably people mostly over 40, want to watch it at home. This is where we are at. There is nothing really wrong with the film or the filmmaking. He knows the genre, he knows the beats he wants to hit, and he is one of the few guys left making films with a history, a good history, with the genre.

The problem is not the film, it is just the delivery method that is an issue. The method by which it finds an audience large enough to make it worth investing in.

And you are correct, streaming makes more sense than theatrical from the investment standpoint. I wish it were not true but it is.

I think the way Chapter Two ends, meant to flow right into three, is why there is an ongoing conversation about how to handle it. If it ends that way, dead stop, next chapter coming, then it makes little sense to release it unless you will be making part three. If a streamer wants it, backs a third chapter and perhaps the fourth, then you can go forward. If not, then sadly, yes, it probably goes the tax write off route...which I really hope it does not.

To make huge money in a cinema today there needs to be some worldwide appeal to your picture. It needs to have something that draws foreign audiences as much or more than US audiences. Big dusty Westerns, at least very traditional ones like this, don't appeal to cinema audiences around the world.

I think you have to go big sci-fi, superhero, horror, or animation to grab a large worldwide audience now. These are what appeal to the world cinema audience now.

 

[Mark-P]

I honestly don't think the "tax write-off" thing is even an option in this case as the movie has already premiered at the Venice Film Festival. Sources are saying it will be released sometime this year, regardless of the future of parts 3 and 4.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

I honestly don't think the "tax write-off" thing is even an option in this case as the movie has already premiered at the Venice Film Festival. Sources are saying it will be released sometime this year, regardless of the future of parts 3 and 4.

I read that it is highly likely the second film will get a streaming release and maybe a limited theatrical run. I obviously really want to see it. My issue is, if it ends like the first film does, and this is how it is said to end, it does not have an ending, it ends meant to continue in a third film. Now, he could condense the third and fourth parts if he can't get backing to do two more, if someone wants to pay for three.

I like to have a full story arc in a film so that each part can be self-contained. He did not do that in part one. It just stops and we got scenes from part two. I did not think part three was completed when he showed part two, so I don't exactly know how he ends Chapter Two. Maybe Skylar can speak to that and if he ends it with clips from the next chapter or just a card that reads "CONTINUED IN CHAPTER THREE" but he did say he saw it and it also just stops rather than having an ending.

So, if I see Chapter Two, I know I will want to see Chapter 3.

I think a better strategy for cinemas for this would have been to have each film have a complete arc, so that each could stand alone. I've only seen the first part, it does not stand alone, not at all. It is kind of a long intro that ends with the story, the main story, about to begin. The first part sets up the "universe" and the characters, but it seems like we will start to get into where they are all headed in Chapter Two. So, I have a strong feeling two ends with a requirement that you have to see part three because when he shot it, he expected to continue into a third chapter.

I don't know if they can go the tax write off route, I hate when they do that, but I can see them considering it if they have two films that require a third to even start to wrap up the story. My hope is a streamer buys 3 and 4 and he can finish it.

 

[Museum Pieces]

I read that it is highly likely the second film will get a streaming release and maybe a limited theatrical run. I obviously really want to see it. My issue is, if it ends like the first film does, and this is how it is said to end, it does not have an ending, it ends meant to continue in a third film. Now, he could condense the third and fourth parts if he can't get backing to do two more, if someone wants to pay for three.

I like to have a full story arc in a film so that each part can be self-contained. He did not do that in part one. It just stops and we got scenes from part two. I did not think part three was completed when he showed part two, so I don't exactly know how he ends Chapter Two. Maybe Skylar can speak to that and if he ends it with clips from the next chapter or just a card that reads "CONTINUED IN CHAPTER THREE" but he did say he saw it and it also just stops rather than having an ending.

So, if I see Chapter Two, I know I will want to see Chapter 3.

I think a better strategy for cinemas for this would have been to have each film have a complete arc, so that each could stand alone. I've only seen the first part, it does not stand alone, not at all. It is kind of a long intro that ends with the story, the main story, about to begin. The first part sets up the "universe" and the characters, but it seems like we will start to get into where they are all headed in Chapter Two. So, I have a strong feeling two ends with a requirement that you have to see part three because when he shot it, he expected to continue into a third chapter.

I don't know if they can go the tax write off route, I hate when they do that, but I can see them considering it if they have two films that require a third to even start to wrap up the story. My hope is a streamer buys 3 and 4 and he can finish it.

I'm not a lawyer; someone check me on this, but screening a movie for a single group of people isn't "publishing" it. Movies are "tested" all the time before being released. I think they could still go the tax route.

I also think the chances of part II being released are good, but I don't see how anyone would finance III at this point. It cost so much money to go into production, which III was already in. When you stop production of a movie eight days in, like they did with III, that costs a lot of money, too. To start it again would cost even more money, above and beyond what it would cost to produce III. And then you're still left with IV.

I think we'll be lucky to get II.

 

[Keith Cobby]

Not sure there's much point buying this as a standalone episode. What a saga this film series has turned out to be. If episode 2 is the end, can it (is it being) be re-edited to be more conclusive.

 

[JoshZ]

Not sure there's much point buying this as a standalone episode. What a saga this film series has turned out to be. If episode 2 is the end, can it (is it being) be re-edited to be more conclusive.

I'm sure they can throw together something almost as seamless as this.

 

[Museum Pieces]

Not sure there's much point buying this as a standalone episode. What a saga this film series has turned out to be. If episode 2 is the end, can it (is it being) be re-edited to be more conclusive.

I don't see how based on the footage I saw that part II could be re-edited to be a satisfying climax. The flaw wasn't in the story. The flaw was in the way it was shot and edited for streaming but released in the theaters like it was made for theatrical exhibition. That killed it because so much money was spent for nothing and it was clearly made for streaming. That money wasted on promotion and distribution could have been put into episodes III and IV. If it had been completed with an eye for streaming it could have earned out over the long haul. Maybe even earned a profit. But Costner was dead set on having a western in the theaters. And that killed it.

 

[David Weicker]

You resurrected this thread just to continue your thread-crap?

Why?

 

[Glenn C.]

You resurrected this thread just to continue your thread-crap?

Why?

He wants people to admit he was right about Part 2, 3 and 4.

 

[Museum Pieces]

He wants people to admit he was right about Part 2, 3 and 4.

Another comment that bumps this thread that's personal about me.

You resurrected this thread just to continue your thread-crap?

Why?

I was done. Someone responded to me.

This is yet another personal attack that has nothing to do with the movie. These are examples of posts resurrecting and uselessly prolonging the discussion.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Okay, guys, knock it off. Let this debate end here.

 

[Mark Booth]

I will watch Part 2 (and Part 3 and Part 4) if they are ever released. I will buy all of the films if they are ever released on 4K Blu-ray. I will buy or rent the digital streaming versions if they are ever released digitally.

Just give me more Horizon and I'll take it any way it is handed out and HAPPILY exchange money for it!

Mark