Podcast Home Theater United Episode 13 - All about amps with special guest John Rice from HomeTheaterForum (1 Viewer)

[DaveF]

Show had several occurrences of seemingly random “DLURRGG!!!” reverby sound effect. Don’t know / didn’t understand what they were. Wasn’t a fan of those sound effects.

 

[DaveF]

Sam, the Marantz AV7706 might have what you need. It seems like it’s saying it has all you’re asking for. 4K 120Hz and VRR.

AV7706 - Premium 11.2 Channel Pre-Amplifier and Processor with HEOS Built-in | Marantz - US

Enjoy a versatile home theater setup with the audiophile sound you expect from Marantz and immerse yourself in multi-dimensional audio with the Marantz AV7706 processor/pre-amplifier.

www.marantz.com

On my shopping list for when pandemic subsides and I do my theater 4K upgrade.

 

[DaveF]

Re: gaming. I was also confused by Sam’s comment that most gamers do surround systems.

I mean, I gamed on my PS4 in 7.2 on a 120” screen. But the most hardcore, online competitive players I know use headphones.

How does microphone work with external surround system? That’s why I had my Sony headset, for Destiny, to have mic and good sound to talk with teammates.

But presently, as often as not, my gaming audio is the Nintendo Switch’s integrated speakers

 

[DaveF]

@JohnRice Thanks for the discussion on amps. I liked the breakdown of Gain and Power. That’s a nuance I’ve never paid attention to, and it’s helpful to have that made explicit.

 

[Sam Posten]

You better wait for HDMI 2.1 to mature with true 48 Gbps chipsets. If you cannot wait, get a Monoprice (ATI/Datasat) HTP-1 or Anthem 70 pre-amp, which have promised 2.1 board upgrades and DTS: X Pro in their future.

48gps doesn’t mean shit until we get 12 bit panels. Anyone who says different doesn’t know what they are talking about or is trying to sell you something.

 

[Sam Posten]

Re: gaming. I was also confused by Sam’s comment that most gamers do surround systems.

I mean, I gamed on my PS4 in 7.2 on a 120” screen. But the most hardcore, online competitive players I know use headphones.

competetive gaming is one percent of one percent of gaming. And I noted that team multiplayer does work better with headphones and I keep good headphones nearby for my game play on all systems, including switch.

But the question was -most- not most competitive gaming and I posit that most gaming is in stereo on mobile by a landslide, followed by stereo consoles to panels or modest front only/soundbar types. Then followed by surround setups followed diiiiistantly by people playing exclusively with headsets on.

 

[John Dirk]

AV7706 - Premium 11.2 Channel Pre-Amplifier and Processor with HEOS Built-in | Marantz - US

Enjoy a versatile home theater setup with the audiophile sound you expect from Marantz and immerse yourself in multi-dimensional audio with the Marantz AV7706 processor/pre-amplifier.

www.marantz.com

On my shopping list for when pandemic subsides and I do my theater 4K upgrade.

<Begin Rant>
I'm feeling a little let down by Marantz these days as the Audyssey Editor app isn't [and never will be] compatible with our AV7702 mkii's. That severely limits the level of control we have over what Audyssey actually does. Since they've decided to stick with Audyssey for the foreseeable future I doubt I'll be buying another Marantz processor. I know the newer models are compatible but why should I have to chuck an otherwise perfectly functional processor just to stop Audyssey from mangling my mid and high level frequency bands. </End Rant>

 

[JohnRice]

@JohnRice Thanks for the discussion on amps. I liked the breakdown of Gain and Power. That’s a nuance I’ve never paid attention to, and it’s helpful to have that made explicit.

It doesn't necessarily make a big difference, as long as the total gain in the system is in the workable realm for the sensitivity of the speakers. It's just something that is so widely misunderstood, and a misunderstanding that people tend to be so committed to that they refuse to learn about it. Why is it important? Because powerful external amps often have lower gain than wimpy ones, or the ones built into receivers. I often see negative feedback from consumers who added an external amp to their receiver, then returned it and accused the manufacturer of false advertising because when they hooked it up, they found the playback volume was lower than with the built-in amp. That's because the general (incorrect) belief is that gain is the same as power, when they're unrelated. As long as you never run out of "volume" (not enough gain) or don't play back at an absurdly low volume (too much gain) then you're good.

 

[JohnRice]

<Begin Rant>
I'm feeling a little let down by Marantz these days as the Audyssey Editor app isn't [and never will be] compatible with our AV7702 mkii's. That severely limits the level of control we have over what Audyssey actually does. Since they've decided to stick with Audyssey for the foreseeable future I doubt I'll be buying another Marantz processor. I know the newer models are compatible but why should I have to chuck an otherwise perfectly functional processor just to stop Audyssey from mangling my mid and high level frequency bands. </End Rant>

It's compatible with later models, just not the 7702II?

 

[John Dirk]

It's compatible with later models, just not the 7702II?

Yep.

Denon, Marantz Launch Audyssey MultEQ Editor App

Denon and Marantz have launched the Audyssey MultEQ Editor app that enables home theater enthusiasts to refine and customize system set-up. Available for iOS and Android devices, the $20 app lets you go “under the hood” to view and adjust settings made by Audyssey’s automated MultiEQ calibration...

www.soundandvision.com

 

[Sam Posten]

Show had several occurrences of seemingly random “DLURRGG!!!” reverby sound effect. Don’t know / didn’t understand what they were. Wasn’t a fan of those sound effects.

Specific time stamps please?

 

[John Dirk]

Show had several occurrences of seemingly random “DLURRGG!!!” reverby sound effect. Don’t know / didn’t understand what they were. Wasn’t a fan of those sound effects.

They weren't random. They were intentionally added in the spirit of talk radio, unless you heard something I didn't.

 

[Dave Upton]

@Brian Dobbs, Re: audio calibration

You’re calibrating volume only.

You‘re not calibrating frequency domain response or phase response. Audssey and its ilk do that.

If you want to keep it all under your control, don’t want to use an integrated system like Audyssey, have a look at REW. This is how you level up your preferred approach

REW room acoustics and audio device measurement and analysis software

REW is free software for room acoustic measurement, loudspeaker measurement and audio device measurement and analysis

www.roomeqwizard.com

If you really want to do it right, to truly hit “Achievement Unlocked” on your HT, you need to get into room treatments. Room treatments plus freq-domain calibration is <chef’s kiss>.

@Sam Posten and @Brian Dobbs maybe we should do a deep dive on room correction, DSP etc? Would be a fun episode to help out with!

My current setup uses a combination of all 3, as @DaveF recommends. I use a MiniDSP 2x4HD that I time-align my subs with and do macro corrections to integrate all 3, then I do the final calibration with ARC Genesis.

That plus having extensive room treatments (5 corner traps, 8 GIK monster traps with flexrange panels) has leveled my system up a huge amount.

 

[JohnRice]

@Dave Upton I'm especially eager to learn more about the sub integration part.

 

[Sam Posten]

@Sam Posten and @Brian Dobbs maybe we should do a deep dive on room correction, DSP etc? Would be a fun episode to help out with!

My current setup uses a combination of all 3, as @DaveF recommends. I use a MiniDSP 2x4HD that I time-align my subs with and do macro corrections to integrate all 3, then I do the final calibration with ARC Genesis.

That plus having extensive room treatments (5 corner traps, 8 GIK monster traps with flexrange panels) has leveled my system up a huge amount.

I know I'd love that. I bought the REW and mic combo and immediately declared bankruptcy on it because it was nowhere near as intuitive as Auddessey.

We have a guest lined up for the 8th, will PM you to discuss availability for the 22nd.

 

[Sam Posten]

AV7706 - Premium 11.2 Channel Pre-Amplifier and Processor with HEOS Built-in | Marantz - US

Enjoy a versatile home theater setup with the audiophile sound you expect from Marantz and immerse yourself in multi-dimensional audio with the Marantz AV7706 processor/pre-amplifier.

www.marantz.com

On my shopping list for when pandemic subsides and I do my theater 4K upgrade.

For the record that unit has the same deficiency as the 2020 Denons. There is only one 8K or 4K 120hz input as shown in the specs. It doesn't say how many 8k outputs there are but I assume it's the same as the Denons and only has 2.

 

[Sam Posten]

They weren't random. They were intentionally added in the spirit of talk radio, unless you heard something I didn't.

Yup, it's a chorus of Duuuuuhs.

 

[Dave Upton]

For the record that unit has the same deficiency as the 2020 Denons. There is only one 8K or 4K 120hz input as shown in the specs. It doesn't say how many 8k outputs there are but I assume it's the same as the Denons and only has 2.

View attachment 87259

The whole crop this year is disappointing. I’m considering jumping to the avm90 but it’s still hdmi 2.0

 

[DaveF]

Yup, it's a chorus of Duuuuuhs

I prefer when you use clips from TV shows and movies and soundtracks and the like. But to each their own.

<Begin Rant>
I'm feeling a little let down by Marantz these days as the Audyssey Editor app isn't [and never will be] compatible with our AV7702 mkii's. That severely limits the level of control we have over what Audyssey actually does. Since they've decided to stick with Audyssey for the foreseeable future I doubt I'll be buying another Marantz processor. I know the newer models are compatible but why should I have to chuck an otherwise perfectly functional processor just to stop Audyssey from mangling my mid and high level frequency bands. </End Rant>

I also wish the newer Audyssey app worked with my 7702mkII. But, technology. I’m inured to newer software having a cutoff date in supporting older hardware. That’s part of the reason I’m interested in the 7706, to get that feature.

I’m more concerned by Audyssey seemingly being stagnant and unimproved for a decade.

But Anthem is outside what I want to spend.

For the record that unit has the same deficiency as the 2020 Denons. There is only one 8K or 4K 120hz input as shown in the specs. It doesn't say how many 8k outputs there are but I assume it's the same as the Denons and only has 2.

I know you’re shopping for a gaming rig, so doesn’t work for you. But as a pre-pro for my projector system, all that is a non-issue. But depends on when I really upgrade. I’m still hazy on whether my 7702mkII supports 4K fully enough or not. And the 4K projector / big screen upgrade is such a pain and huge expense to deal with, I keep putting it off. I don’t like remaining an antediluvian banging rocks together with my HD projector, but ugh dealing with 4K and doubly so in 2020 / 2021.

 

[DaveF]

I know I'd love that. I bought the REW and mic combo and immediately declared bankruptcy on it because it was nowhere near as intuitive as Auddessey.

We have a guest lined up for the 8th, will PM you to discuss availability for the 22nd.

I’ve looked in REW. I’ve got a friend who uses it. Just, too much. Audyssey is work enough dealing with multiple mic locations. And there’s lots of lore and ancient teachings and philosophers stones on just how best to make Audyssey work best for multi-row seating.

Which, now I’ll have a little rant:

Why hasn’t Audyssey been updated specifically to support multi-row seating? Who uses Audyssey and buys $5000 pre-pros with top-line Audyssey? Enthusiasts with home theaters. It’s painfully obvious there’s a need, even, for room correction software that supports two or three seating scenarios. I’d use a (1) back row only that’s we mostly use for TV, (2) front row only for just two of us watching a movie and (3) full house six people in two rows. Unfortunately, it seems like room correction / calibration software just gave up ten years ago and hasn’t gotten any better since.

I’ve heard Anthem’s ARC is better than Audyssey. But, I’m guessing it’s still meant for single seating position, and not built for multi-row home theaters.