Podcast Home Theater United Episode 13 - All about amps with special guest John Rice from HomeTheaterForum (1 Viewer)

[Sam Posten]

Episode 13 is up and should be available on Apple Podcasts and soon will be on Spotify. If you'd like to listen in via browser, it's embedded below:

All about amps with guest John Rice from Home Theater Forum | Home Theater United Podcast

Join hosts Brian and Sam as they welcome HTF super fan John Rice to discuss using Amps and Separates in your home theater. Why would you choose to go this route over an integrated receiver? What are good brands to choose in this space? How does a system like Audessey work with external amps? Can...

www.hometheaterunited.com

Huge thanks to our special guest @JohnRice for providing expert commentary and giving me a lesson here myself!

 

[Sam Posten]

Also we introduced some home made sound clips from my buddy and podcast fan Todd Rice, no relation! And we got the logo up too. If anyone has talents in these realms and would like to have your clips featured on the podcast please reach out!

 

[John Dirk]

John and Sam together in the same [virtual] room? This will be EPIC!!!

 

[Sam Posten]

He's a gentleman and brought me around to the idea of going separates. =)

For those in the know, let's say I wanted to move from my current high end denon receiver to separates capable of of supporting HDMI 2.1, VRR and 4K 120hz on the video side and amplification equal or better to what my Denon 6300 can do (11-channel amplifier, 140 watts per channel) where would you suggest I start looking, assuming I am not going super high end but wanted to be competitive with the cost of 2021 denon 6000 series? Amazon is selling the 6700 for $2500 now and I believe we will see a replacement in 3-6 months causing the cost to dip even further.
Amazon product ASIN B089Q25DRT

 

[JohnRice]

John and Sam together in the same [virtual] room? This will be EPIC!!!

I promised to behave myself... twice.

 

[John Dirk]

He's a gentleman and brought me around to the idea of going separates. =)

For those in the know, let's say I wanted to move from my current high end denon receiver to separates capable of of supporting HDMI 2.1, VRR and 4K 120hz on the video side and amplification equal or better to what my Denon 6300 can do (11-channel amplifier, 140 watts per channel) where would you suggest I start looking, assuming I am not going super high end but wanted to be competitive with the cost of 2021 denon 6000 series? Amazon is selling the 6700 for $2500 now and I believe we will see a replacement in 3-6 months causing the cost to dip even further.
Amazon product ASIN B089Q25DRT

I would just be looking to pass-through for HDMI 2.1 as no receiver or Pre/Pro is ideal for video processing. Although the better ones can certainly handle it, you're always better off letting your players handle that task.

Like @JohnRice , I'm currently a Marantz guy but I'll probably be moving to Anthem at some point because of the limitations of Audyssey compared to Arc Genesis or Dirac.

Remember, with separates, the audio/video processing and the power capabilities become two entirely separate [pun intended] considerations. Once you accept the initial expense, it's great to know you can add virtually unlimited power at any time without ever having to replace the Pre/Pro.

 

[Sam Posten]

Nope that’s a non starter and that’s where you guys lose people with these arguments. Most of us have 5/6 players including those of us who have both current gen top end gaming systems that are big into 4k120. Not routing video is a dead end.

 

[Sam Posten]

In case you don’t know: VRR and 4k120 are NOT pass through features. If they were there would be no problem using my current receiver.

 

[Brian Dobbs]

Yo @JohnRice, how heavy are those monoblocks?

 

[John Dirk]

Nope that’s a non starter and that’s where you guys lose people with these arguments. Most of us have 5/6 players including those of us who have both current gen top end gaming systems that are big into 4k120. Not routing video is a dead end.

I don't lose anyone because I never argue with people about how they choose to spend their own money. I just want folks to know the facts, assuming they're interested of course.

All HDMI Pre/Pros are capable of handling video as it is required to superimpose the menus onscreen. I was referring to allowing them to handle things like scaling and picture modes, but you're right, I didn't explain that very well.

 

[John Dirk]

Episode 13 is up and should be available on Apple Podcasts and soon will be on Spotify. If you'd like to listen in via browser, it's embedded below:

All about amps with guest John Rice from Home Theater Forum | Home Theater United Podcast

Join hosts Brian and Sam as they welcome HTF super fan John Rice to discuss using Amps and Separates in your home theater. Why would you choose to go this route over an integrated receiver? What are good brands to choose in this space? How does a system like Audessey work with external amps? Can...

www.hometheaterunited.com

Huge thanks to our special guest @JohnRice for providing expert commentary and giving me a lesson here myself!

This was a great listen, guys. I kept wishing I could chime in and really drive that separates argument home.

 

[Brian Dobbs]

This was a great listen, guys. I kept wishing I could chime in and really drive that separates argument home.

Something tells me this will be a topic worth revisiting in the future.

Now, more importantly, let's all compare amp weights. My Outlaw 7-channel weighs approximately 100 pounds.

 

[JohnRice]

In case you don’t know: VRR and 4k120 are NOT pass through features. If they were there would be no problem using my current receiver.

What seems to be a simple reality of gaming. You must have cutting edge video capabilities if you want to run it through your audio system. Period. Whether or not you use a receiver, separates or a combination makes no difference. It's the gaming video requirements that drive your needs. If you can't separate video and audio like all UHD players allow, then you are required to have video switching that can handle your gaming needs. The source of this problem is gaming and only gaming. The audio side of the equation is not at fault. If your gaming systems won't allow you to separate the audio, ask them to do something about it.

 

[JohnRice]

Yo @JohnRice, how heavy are those monoblocks?

You might be disappointed. These are Class H amps, which are a modernized version of the traditional A/B. The main difference is they forego toroidal power supplies for a switching type. I've owned A/B amps as heavy as 80 lbs, and the last Reference amps from the same manufacturer that used them weighed over 100 lbs. With Class H, solely by reducing the weight of the power supply and heat sinks needed to cool it, the ones I have weigh about 42 lbs, and they run very cool. Not as cool as Class D (which @Dave Upton and @John Dirk can talk about) but still extremely cool by comparison.

 

[JohnRice]

This was a great listen, guys. I kept wishing I could chime in and really drive that separates argument home.

I try not to be pushy on the topic. No matter how all-in I am, it's not for everyone.

 

[Sam Posten]

Same! I really want to explore the amp world but it seems like every time I do something pushes me away from it! And you guys are right, gaming is 100% the driver here. Nothing else in the ecosystem NEEDS these features the way gaming does. But if I was to move to a panel that supports those features I'd sure like the rest of the system to support it. In 2020 even the more advanced receivers could only do it on one input, which is crazy. 2021 will see improvements on that front for sure in the receiver space. If the Pre/pros are behind the times on that it's one more reason for me to stick with an integrated receiver. =(

 

[JohnRice]

Same! I really want to explore the amp world but it seems like every time I do something pushes me away from it! And you guys are right, gaming is 100% the driver here. Nothing else in the ecosystem NEEDS these features the way gaming does. But if I was to move to a panel that supports those features I'd sure like the rest of the system to support it. In 2020 even the more advanced receivers could only do it on one input, which is crazy. 2021 will see improvements on that front for sure in the receiver space. If the Pre/pros are behind the times on that it's one more reason for me to stick with an integrated receiver. =(

Sam, the Marantz AV7706 might have what you need. It seems like it’s saying it has all you’re asking for. 4K 120Hz and VRR.

 

[Brian Dobbs]

Hey @Sam Posten, so wouldn't something like this be useful? Sorry if I'm missing something obvious.

 

[John Dirk]

Something tells me this will be a topic worth revisiting in the future.

Now, more importantly, let's all compare amp weights. My Outlaw 7-channel weighs approximately 100 pounds.

My amps are as follows:

Outlaw 7140 - 140 WPC x7 into 8 ohms = 53.5 Lbs
Acurus A200x3 - 200WPC x3 into 8 ohms = 45 Lbs
D-Sonic M3A-1200S - 800WPC x2 into 8 ohms = 22Lbs

 

[John Dirk]

You might be disappointed. These are Class H amps, which are a modernized version of the traditional A/B. The main difference is they forego toroidal power supplies for a switching type. I've owned A/B amps as heavy as 80 lbs, and the last Reference amps from the same manufacturer that used them weighed over 100 lbs. With Class H, solely by reducing the weight of the power supply and heat sinks needed to cool it, the ones I have weigh about 42 lbs, and they run very cool. Not as cool as Class D (which @Dave Upton and @John Dirk can talk about) but still extremely cool by comparison.

My D-Sonic M3a-1200S (800WPC into 8 ohms weighs in at a svelte 22Lbs and is barely warm to the touch, even with my 4 ohm speakers driven to reference levels. I really do believe Class D is the future for high end audio.