Holy Grail of "lost" films (1 Viewer)

[John Maher_289910]

I've read this thread with great interest. While most of the films listed might spark a bit of interest in me to see the cut footage, I simply cannot come up with any film that I care if lost (cut) footage is found (restored) or not. Not sure what that says about me? In some cases, it could be I don't like the film, so I don't care to see more of it (A STAR IS BORN), or the film is just fine as it is (KING KONG). Having said that, I wouldn't mind seeing the tidal wave sequence restored to Brian De Palma's SNAKE EYES ((the film would play better with it, than without it), and where the hell is the entirety of Fox's HOME SWEET HOMICIDE?

 

[Ignatius]

Oh man, I totally forgot "King Kong Appears in Edo" the legendary 1938 Japanese film. One of the first documented kaiju films and a totally unauthorised rip-off. I believe there's also a slightly earlier lost Japanese Kong rip-off, though that one's only a short film.

 

[JediFonger]

&filmmakers say film lasts forever! ha!its a long thread so i apologize for duplicating this bu fw murnau's lost films would be awesome to recover so we can finally have his complete filmography.also, even if collectors have the film element not all studios/right holders have $ or desire to restore due to lack of sales/interest . its like the alamo we had the perfect storm but studios didnt want to move forward.nothing lasts forever

 

[John Maher_289910]

I would like to see a box set of ABC's Movie of the Week. The real lost films!

 

[Mark Zimmer]

In addition to the Dark Shadows pictures (another example of studios being dim to the extreme), and London after Midnight and Greed, I'd like to some day see the 1925 preview version of Phantom of the Opera, with the scenes intact that were cut as being "too scary" for the preview audiences. For that matter, I'd like to see a good print of the 1925 version itself, which seems to exist only in abysmal reductions. The premiere version of 2001 would be most welcome too.

 

[ljgranberry]

Vanity Fair magazine did a story on the search in South America:
http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/classic/features/magnificent-obsession-200201

This is an excellent piece that I would encourage everyone interested in this film to read.

 

[bigshot]

bigshot: I find your antecdote about Haver and the FBI sounding a little apocryphal with just a dash of sour grapes added. Haver is no longer with us to explain or defend his actions, but it seems pretty obvious to me that Warners would not get involved unless it had good reason to believe that some individual had a stolen copy of ASIB.

Back then, the studios were asserting that elements pulled out of the trash were stolen. The early days of home video were a wakeup call for the studios. They went to the shelf and realized stuff wasn't there. It didn't matter if they threw it out themselves. They wanted it back. Collectors thought Haver was one of them, but he wasn't. For a while there, all film collectors were keeping their cards close to their vests. You have to understand the pull that the big studios exert on local government and even the Feds. They are a monumental tax base. If Warners called for a raid, a raid they got. It's different now thankfully.

 

[rsmithjr]

Porgy and Bess (1959)

Like many others in this list, this is not a "lost" film at all. Apparently 70mm elements exist that would do a fine job for a Blu-ray or DCP.

The problem is that the film was suppressed by the Gershwin estate for decades. Now, it appears that the estate would be willing to move forward, but it hasn't happened.

Also, unlike many films listed here, no legal version of it has been in circulation at all. No home video, theatrical, or TV. [A very few special showings of extant prints were allowed.]

This is a very important film for many reasons.

 

[Jari K]

Why they're keeping "Porgy" unavailable?

 

[SilverWook]

The European (at least some of them) BDs include the "international" version of The Shining. US BD has the US version. Do you mean these differences?

Yes. I don't see how someone could think either version had the lost ending though. Somebody somewhere must have it, unless the people Kubrick sent out to cut the prints took the trims and physically destroyed them.

 

[Dave B Ferris]

Why they're keeping "Porgy" unavailable?

My guess is that there are some people who see the situation with "Porgy" the same way some people see the situation with "Song of the South".

 

[ljgranberry]

My guess is that there are some people who see the situation with "Porgy" the same way some people see the situation with "Song of the South".

I hate political correctness.

 

[sonomatom1]

From Wikipedia re Porgy and Bess (excerpt):

Although the film won one Oscar and one Golden Globe, and its soundtrack album won a Grammy, it was critically and commercially unsuccessful, earning back only half its $7-million cost. It was broadcast on network television only once - Sunday night, March 5, 1967, on ABC-TV (during a week that also saw a rebroadcast of a TV adaptation of Brigadoon, as well as the first telecast of Hal Holbrook's one-man show Mark Twain Tonight!).[24] The 1959 Porgy and Bess has not been seen in its entirety on network TV since, although clips have been shown on some of the American Film Institute specials. The film had multiple presentations during the 1970s on Los Angeles local television, KTLA-TV, Channel 5, an independent station with access to the Goldwyn Studios output, most probably using the special pan and scan 35mm print which was made for the ABC-TV network presentation, as was KTLA-TV's practice (it and competitor KHJ-TV telecast 35mm prints in strong preference to 16mm prints).
Goldwyn's lease of the rights was only 15 years, and after they expired, the film could not be shown without the permission of the Gershwin and Heyward estates, and even then only after substantial compensation was paid. Despite repeated requests, the Gershwin estate repeatedly refused to grant permission for the film to be seen.[25] As a consequence, the film has never been officially released on video or DVD in the U.S., however bootleg DVD-Rs, made from a 35mm anamorphic "E-K" release print, circulate among collectors, preserving 115 minutes of the original 138-minute whole.[26] Apparently, authorized DVDs are available in Region 0 Format (that is, ALL regions) from sellers in Germany. These are "manufactured" DVDs, not DVD-Rs. This is an un-restored all-English language version, without German subtitles, without any overture, intermission, entr'acte or exit music; the current bootlegs appear to have been made from this version.
There exists one 35mm Technicolor dye-transfer print, with 4-track magnetic sound, but it is in the UCLA archive library and is not generally available for public presentations. This print has had at least two presentations at university-sponsored festivals, and which presentations required special permission from the Gershwin Estate. It was long believed that there are no surviving 70mm prints, and that the 65mm negative is "unprintable". Likely, any restoration would have to be effected from the silver separation protection masters, assuming those could be found. A faded 70mm print with faulty 6-track magnetic sound and with German subtitles was recently discovered and was lately screened for the opening of the 22. International Film Festival Innsbruck.
It wasn't until 2007 that it was given a theatrical showing again when, on September 26 and 27, the Ziegfeld Theatre in midtown-Manhattan presented it in its entirety, complete with overture and intermission and exit music, followed by a discussion with Preminger biographer Foster Hirsch.[27]

 

[battlebeast]

I wish someone would release the two Jan Troell films THE EMIGRANTS and THE NEW WORLD. These are two remarkable films from the 70's which have never released on either dvd or blu ray. I assume there are some complicated rights issues, but these are classics that rank with THE GODFATHER films in terms of their quality and deserve to be widely seen.

"The Emmigrants" is NOWHERE NEAR as good as "The Godfather" but I want it released because it is a best Picture nominee.Another lost film is "The Patriot", another best picture nominee and the ONLY lost Best Picture NOM.I have seen the trailer; apparently there is a 6 minute reel in the Portuguese archive and UCLA has some bits and pieces (maybe). I wish Criterion had released the trailer and 6 minute reel on it's Ernst Lubitch set.

 

[classicmovieguy]

Back then, the studios were asserting that elements pulled out of the trash were stolen. The early days of home video were a wakeup call for the studios. They went to the shelf and realized stuff wasn't there. It didn't matter if they threw it out themselves. They wanted it back. Collectors thought Haver was one of them, but he wasn't. For a while there, all film collectors were keeping their cards close to their vests. You have to understand the pull that the big studios exert on local government and even the Feds. They are a monumental tax base. If Warners called for a raid, a raid they got. It's different now thankfully.

Lots of people thought Haver was altogether the most unsuitable person to spearhead the restoration in the first place.

 

[Miguel M Santos]

My holy grails:
—Richard Williams' original intent for The Thief and the Cobbler. He's in his 80s, so time is of the essence.

It's screening in London at the British Film Institute next month.

 

[ahollis]

My guess is that there are some people who see the situation with "Porgy" the same way some people see the situation with "Song of the South".

Nothing about political correctness. The Gershwin Estate held the rights very close and prevented any exhibition of it in any form. By the time they finally made a deal with the Goldwyn Estate classic movie sales had dried up to the point that no ones wants to go to the trouble to get it released. It's about the same thing with WHERE'S CHARLEY, the music rights were held up so long that now they are cleared, Warner can not find decent elements to work with.

 

[Dave B Ferris]

This article, mostly about play and opera versions (although the movie is mentioned) includes some references to some other thoughts & theories - which I hope are not actually true (especially Trevor Nunn's comments).

http://articles.philly.com/2011-08-21/news/29911967_1_porgy-and-bess-great-american-opera-dubose-heyward

 

[Dave B Ferris]

Also:The lion’s share of the criticism against Porgy and Bess originates from the late 1950s, when MGM turned Porgy and Bess into a major Hollywood picture. The film would introduce a much wider national audience to Porgy and Bess than the novel, play, or Broadway opera had reached; it would also premiere at a particular historical moment when a civil rights movement was just beginning to consolidate. Playwright Lorraine Hansberry, appearing on a Chicago talk show with Otto Preminger, the film’s director, articulated the most widely disseminated critique of Porgy and Bess. Hansberry insisted that the characters in Porgy and Bess were stereotypes which “constitute bad art” and result from an artist who “hasn’t tried hard enough to understand his characters.” Furthermore, the opera/film was rife with exoticism:“Over a period of time, [we] have apparently decided that within American life [there is] one great repository where we’re going to focus and imagine sensuality and exaggerated sexuality, all very removed and earthy things—and this great image is the American Negro.”When Preminger asked Hansberry if she thought the production ill-intentioned, Hansberry replied:“We cannot afford the luxuries of mistakes of other peoples. So it isn’t a matter of being hostile to you, but on the other hand it’s also a matter of never ceasing to try to get you to understand that your mistakes can be painful, even those which come from excellent intentions. We’ve had great wounds from great intentions.”http://www.courttheatre.org/m/article/the_porgy_and_bess_controversy/

 

[Peter Apruzzese]

Yes. I don't see how someone could think either version had the lost ending though. Somebody somewhere must have it, unless the people Kubrick sent out to cut the prints took the trims and physically destroyed them.

That's exactly what happened. I worked at one of the initial engagement theatres (I believe there were only 10 or 12 locations that premiered it) a year later and talked to the head projectionist about it. Warner Bros sent a courier to each location on opening night or the next morning with instructions on the exact footage to cut from the last reel and the courier had to leave with the footage afterwards. That accounts for why there was a visible splice in that scene in those theatres that weekend until they received a new final reel a few days later where the cut was printed in. The story he was told by WB was that Kubrick ordered the cut too late for them to print a new last reel in time to get them to those opening locations.