Holy Grail of "lost" films (1 Viewer)

[EricSchulz]

Great thread! For truly "lost" films, I go with London After Midnight. For "partially" lost, the original King Kong's spider pit sequence and the complete, uncut House of Dark Shadows.

 

[JoeDoakes]

3. The Magnificent Ambersons (1942) Directed by Orson Welles. The Holy Grail of lost film holy grails.

Yes, that is the holy grail of lost films. Honorable mention: London After Midnight. I too would like to see the missing Oland Charlie Chan films, and for those who are into such things, there are roughly 150 missing Rathbone/Bruce Sherlock Holmes radio shows.

 

[Vahan_Nisanain]

The Big Boss. Original 2-hour Mandarin mono.

 

[ljgranberry]

Yes, that is the holy grail of lost films. Honorable mention: London After Midnight. I too would like to see the missing Oland Charlie Chan films, and for those who are into such things, there are roughly 150 missing Rathbone/Bruce Sherlock Holmes radio shows.

Speaking of Holmes on the radio, I understand there was a BBC series with Orson Welles as Moriarty. I have looked for years, but have been unable to find it.

 

[David_B_K]

Speaking of Holmes on the radio, I understand there was a BBC series with Orson Welles as Moriarty. I have looked for years, but have been unable to find it.

It was the series that featured John Gielgud as Holmes and Ralph Richardson as Watson. Welles did appear as Moriarty in The Final Problem. You should be able to find an MP3 of it online somewhere.

 

[JoeDoakes]

Speaking of Holmes on the radio, I understand there was a BBC series with Orson Welles as Moriarty. I have looked for years, but have been unable to find it.

Available here: http://www.amazon.com/Sherlock-Holmes-Baker-Street-Dozen/dp/1598879162/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1399905345&sr=8-1&keywords=baker+street+dozen.

 

[David_B_K]

THE ALAMO would have been a better film if it diid not star John Wayne.It was his ego trip that failed miserably at the box office.

Your dislike of The Alamo is well-known on the forum now. As to the "ego trip" of starring in his own film,. it is well known that Wayne did not intend to star in the film; he only wanted to direct it. He had his eye on the cameo of Sam Houston. But he could not get the backing for the film unless he agreed to take one of the starring roles; so he took the role of Crockett.

It did not fail miserably at the box office. It was the 5th highest grossing film of the year. No, it did not make its money back at the time, but was hardly a miserable failure.

 

[JoeDoakes]

The identity of the collector who owns the complete "Star is Born" was blown a few years ago...

http://www.thejudyroom.com/asib/asib-article.html

This is a great article. EVERYONE should read this.

 

[Peter Apruzzese]

I wish someone would release the two Jan Troell films THE EMIGRANTS and THE NEW WORLD. These are two remarkable films from the 70's which have never released on either dvd or blu ray. I assume there are some complicated rights issues, but these are classics that rank with THE GODFATHER films in terms of their quality and deserve to be widely seen.

It's not a physical release, but both of those are available to stream in standard def now on the Warner Archive Instant service

 

[Rob_Ray]

My holy grail would be "Convention City" along with "My Man" and "Honky Tonk". The complete soundtrack to "The Rogue Song" exists and if the footage ever turns up, I fear it would be as a late friend of mine described another formerly lost relic decades ago: "That film wasn't lost. It was hiding."

 

[CinemaCynic]

Oh well, there's a Blu-ray coming for The Private Life Of Sherlock Holmes. I don't think those cut sequences got as far as the initial premiere. In an interview with Miklos Rozsa in a 70's issue of Films & Filming, he was asked about the music for those scenes, & he said he didn't compose any as they were cut before he started work on the film.

Is there? Do you know who is releasing? It's been stream-able in HD on Netflix for years.

Those sequences didn't get to the premiere but were assembled. Wilder intended a 'roadshow' version that the Mirisch Brothers called off at some point. However its the reason why the picture on 'Naked Honeymooners' and the audio of 'The Upside Down Room' are assembled, the latter having been intended to be used at one point as a promotional short by the Mirisch's, which is why it wouldn't surprise me if the film turned up on that sequence eventually.

 

[Vic Pardo]

This is a great article. EVERYONE should read this.

Thanks for the reminder. Because of your post I clicked on the link and read it. Fascinating look at the world of private film collectors and their relationships with the studios and with restoration people. There are probably many more stories like this that simply won't see the light of day because the collectors won't talk. This is a rare case of someone talking to someone in that world and sharing the conversation. The question I have is why Joe Caps revealed so much and allowed it to be attributed to him. How does that impact his relationship with the collector in question?

 

[sonomatom1]

I too share the same dream as the earlier poster who wished that the 6-hour version of "Cleopatra" could be found (I understand that a collector does own a b/w 35mm cut of the complete film). "Cleopatra", contrary to its detractors, might have been an extraordinaly motion picture if 20th Century had supported the vision and genius of Joseph L. Mankiewicz ("All About Eve", "Suddenly Last Summer").

And after just reading about the existence (posting #7) of an uncut version of "A Star is Born", it just makes sick that collectors will go to their graves with these films in their closets, never to be seen, but only to be talked about over cocktails ("...well, I have a copy of "Cleopatra...") - they make me puke!

 

[Steve...O]

Hats OffThe four missing Oland ChansI like the suggestion of the missing Rathbone Bruce radio shows do I will second it. Rumor had it that some or all of those existed with the Estate of the lady who wrote them, but I have no idea if that is true.

 

[Jack P]

Thank you for sharing this. So, lacking music, it seems the film cannot be restored to even an educated-guess approximation of what Wilder intended.

Actually, Rozsa *did* score the "Upside-Down Room" segment. The surviving audio that is included on the supplements reveal totally original underscoring for this part, as well as a longer version of the Main Title (incorporating more of his Violin Concerto) and also some cues covering the train sequence with the Sicilian singing teacher. So if footage for that part were found, then it could be put back in the film with the final mixed audio that survives.

 

[Alan Tully]

Actually, Rozsa *did* score the "Upside-Down Room" segment. The surviving audio that is included on the supplements reveal totally original underscoring for this part, as well as a longer version of the Main Title (incorporating more of his Violin Concerto) and also some cues covering the train sequence with the Sicilian singing teacher. So if footage for that part were found, then it could be put back in the film with the final mixed audio that survives.

Thanks, interesting. I'll have to find that Rozsa interview, give me a couple of days, lots of issues of Films & Filming to flick through.

 

[CinemaCynic]

I too share the same dream as the earlier poster who wished that the 6-hour version of "Cleopatra" could be found (I understand that a collector does own a b/w 35mm cut of the complete film). "Cleopatra", contrary to its detractors, might have been an extraordinaly motion picture if 20th Century had supported the vision and genius of Joseph L. Mankiewicz ("All About Eve", "Suddenly Last Summer").

And after just reading about the existence (posting #7) of an uncut version of "A Star is Born", it just makes sick that collectors will go to their graves with these films in their closets, never to be seen, but only to be talked about over cocktails ("...well, I have a copy of "Cleopatra...") - they make me puke!

I've never heard of the Cleopatra rumor, sounds too good to be true tho I'd love to be wrong.

Collector paranoia and 'hoarder-ism' is a touchy subject, had quite a bit of experience with a few of the genial as well as the more rough personalities in the early 90's. In the end they know there is a value to what they hold, if not monetary then a 'one of a kind' of moral superiority, and from their pov they 'rescued' the film that someone else carelessly let rot or didn't value enough. I do have just a bit of 'stick it to the man' empathy for that view, but only emotionally. They so lose my empathy when they start to play 'hostage negotiations.'

And not to derail the topic into archival TV but I'm sure a few readers here have been following the Phil Morris/Doctor Who 'omnirumor' insanity elsewhere. From what I understand on and off the record its become a bit like 'Heart of Darkness,' an exotic mission dissolving completely into madness... Aguirre and the Wrath of Fanboy...

 

[johnmcmasters]

Mine would be largely those already chosen by others: including

[*]“The Magnificent Ambersons”,
[*]the lost Chan films,
[*]“London After Midnight”,
[*]“Cleopatra”,
[*]“King Kong” and the spider pit sequence.
[*]Wilder's "The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes"
[/list]
I’d add in a complete version of

[*]“Legend”that included the “dance to the death” sequence,
[*]a totally complete version of “Raptus: The Terror/Horror of Dr. Hichcock”,
[*] a complete and restored version of “Reynaldo and Clara” which I saw twice during its original premiere in NYC,
[*]a release of Donald’s Cammell’s version of “Performance” which is reportedly in the possession of his widow, China;
[*]a restored “The Devils”,
[*] a release of the US Showtime sitcom “Brothers” which was apparently wiped (I have 3 ½ complete seasons on DVDR transferred from my ancient VHS dupes),
[*] the original “vision/version” of “A Matter of Time”,
[*] and a restored version of “Fabiola”.
[/list]
There are so many!

 

[Ed Lachmann]

THE LOTUS EATER (1921) A shipwrecked aviator finds romance on an exotic remote island. It was considered by many contemporaries as John Barrymore's finest performance.
GREED (1924) Of course, the 5 hours plus version. There is an old rumor has it actually may exist somewhere in Argentina as a 35mm print that a formerly well-to-do family owned and would only rarely screen for visiting friends. The owner was said to be a dear friend of Von Stroheim's.
THE LOST FILMS OF THEDA BARA All presumed long ago lost, except for a print of CLEOPATRA (1917) that passed through the hands of Henri Langlois in the 1940's. He passed on buying it, reasoning that the Americans must have had a print somewhere in their vaults.
THE PRIVATE LIFE OF HELEN OF TROY (1927) A lost Alexander Korda silent epic which starred Maria Corda as Helena and Ricardo Cortez as Paris.
NEPTUNE'S DAUGHTER (1914) Exotic mythological fantasy featuring beautiful mermaid, Annette Kellerman, whose famous nude scene is documented in one surviving still.
Also, there are two I'd love to see that exist but have had no release I'm aware of:
THE WOMAN GOD FORGOT (1917) Wild early DeMille epic about Montezuma's daughter, played by Geraldine Farrar who falls in love with a young Spanish soldier.
A KISS FOR CINDERELLA (1926) Anyone who loved Betty Bronson in PETER PAN would probably enjoy this filmed James Barrie play with the Cinderella story set during WWI. Considered by many as a silent masterpiece. Eastman House has it. Somebody please get it.

 

[Ed Lachmann]

A restored version of “Fabiola”.
There are so many!

There is a gorgeous complete version of the two part FABIOLA (1948) available through Amazon.fr from Gaumont. There are two separate DVD's, MIRAGE DE ROME (87 minutes) and LA SANG DES MARTYRS (80 minutes). Gaumont recently announced that blu-ray versions of some or their titles would be appearing very soon. No new English subs are to be added to titles that don't already have them. The Gaumont FABIOLA, unfortunately, has no English subtitles.