Holiday Inn (1942) - 10/7 (1 Viewer)

[MatthewA]

And because it's punishing the poor naive stupid-people who watch WC first because "Look, the song's in the title!"

I saw WC first because it happened to be screening at a local theater around Christmastime. I haven't seen Holiday Inn.

 

[Rob_Ray]

I've seen both films countless times as they were both television staples around the holidays when I was growing up. I've always preferred WHITE CHRISTMAS for its stronger supporting cast (as I mentioned in an earlier post) but also for its admittedly lightweight storyline involving WWII veterans adjusting to life after the war. My dad was one of those men and he had an inordinate fondness for this film, though he wasn't otherwise into musicals much at all. Every Christmas when NBC would run it on their SATURDAY NIGHT AT THE MOVIES, it would be one of the television hallmarks of the season in our house.

Though the songs in HOLIDAY INN are first-rate, too many of the characters are just not likeable. But everyone in WHITE CHRISTMAS is nice and the plot complications involve simple misunderstandings rather than underhanded schemes. It's a minor point, but as a Christmas movie, it's more in keeping with the sense of Christmas Cheer. And, to me, Rosemary Clooney personifies the Christmas season in much the same way Bing does.

I've preordered HOLIDAY INN and look forward to watching it over the holidays, but I have to defend WHITE CHRISTMAS against those who would call its fans "naive stupid-people." It's not my favorite musical by a long shot and it's a bit too long, but few films put me in the holiday mood better than WHITE CHRISTMAS.

 

[Garysb]

Is this first time a colorized film has made it to blu ? If I remember correctly when a blu ray included a previous done colorized version such as It's A Wonderful Life the colorized version was in SD. I thought this was done because the master used for the colorization was in 480i . As no one else has mentioned this perhaps I am mistaken. I also thought that was why the colorized Miracle on 34th St. Was not included it the blu ray release.

 

[Mark-P]

Is this first time a colorized film has made it to blu ? If I remember correctly when a blu ray included a previous done colorized version such as It's A Wonderful Life the colorized version was in SD. I thought this was done because the master used for the colorization was in 480i . As no one else has mentioned this perhaps I am mistaken. I also thought that was why the colorized Miracle on 34th St. Was not included it the blu ray release.

The colorized IAWL was re-done in HD which is included in the Blu-ray release. As for colorized movies on Blu-ray, I guess you are not familiar with a company called Legend Films which has put out a great many colorized films on Blu-ray. Sony also included colorized versions of some of its Ray Harryhausen movies on Blu-ray.

 

[LeoA]

I just skipped around it a bit out of curiosity since I had no interest in watching it that way, but as I remember it, the colorized version of It's A Wonderful Life on the Blu-Ray was also in HD and was a brand new colorization of it.

 

[David Weicker]

Besides the Harryhausen's (which I believe he participated in), and Its A Wonderful Life, I also know that Babes In Toyland (March Of The Wooden Soldiers) had a dual release

 

[Brian McHale]

I've seen both films countless times as they were both television staples around the holidays when I was growing up. I've always preferred WHITE CHRISTMAS for its stronger supporting cast (as I mentioned in an earlier post) but also for its admittedly lightweight storyline involving WWII veterans adjusting to life after the war. My dad was one of those men and he had an inordinate fondness for this film, though he wasn't otherwise into musicals much at all. Every Christmas when NBC would run it on their SATURDAY NIGHT AT THE MOVIES, it would be one of the television hallmarks of the season in our house.

Though the songs in HOLIDAY INN are first-rate, too many of the characters are just not likeable. But everyone in WHITE CHRISTMAS is nice and the plot complications involve simple misunderstandings rather than underhanded schemes. It's a minor point, but as a Christmas movie, it's more in keeping with the sense of Christmas Cheer. And, to me, Rosemary Clooney personifies the Christmas season in much the same way Bing does.

I've preordered HOLIDAY INN and look forward to watching it over the holidays, but I have to defend WHITE CHRISTMAS against those who would call its fans "naive stupid-people." It's not my favorite musical by a long shot and it's a bit too long, but few films put me in the holiday mood better than WHITE CHRISTMAS.

Well said. To me, White Christmas is a classic feel good Christmas movie, while Holiday Inn is full of deceitful, back-stabbing characters. It is far from a feel good film and does not, in my opinion, embody any of the classic Christmas feeling that so many of us want in our holiday films.

 

[MatthewA]

There's also the whole blackface issue.

 

[Joel Arndt]

I noticed that Amazon has reduced their price on Holiday Inn to $12.99. I picked it up at Costco yesterday for $9.99.

 

[smithbrad]

There's also the whole blackface issue.

And the little Father Time and Baby New Year scene.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

I find the criticisms of "Holiday Inn" due to its "deceitful, back-stabbing characters" to be perplexing. Aren't there "unpleasant" characters in most holiday tales? "It's a Wonderful Life", "Christmas Carol", "Grinch" - you name it. Those roles add drama and spice to the proceedings - without them, the stories are just bland.

Which is pretty much how I feel about "WC": milquetoast, "safe" and forgettable. Sure, the characters are nicer - and they're also much less interesting.

I think "HI" is smart, clever, charming, clever - and ultimately heart-warming. "WC" just feels like a marketing opportunity made into a movie...

 

[Rob_Ray]

I find the criticisms of "Holiday Inn" due to its "deceitful, back-stabbing characters" to be perplexing. Aren't there "unpleasant" characters in most holiday tales? "It's a Wonderful Life", "Christmas Carol", "Grinch" - you name it. Those roles add drama and spice to the proceedings - without them, the stories are just bland.

Which is pretty much how I feel about "WC": milquetoast, "safe" and forgettable. Sure, the characters are nicer - and they're also much less interesting.

I think "HI" is smart, clever, charming, clever - and ultimately heart-warming. "WC" just feels like a marketing opportunity made into a movie...

The trouble with HOLIDAY INN for me is that it's the main characters, the protagonists, that are unpleasant, not the Mr. Potters of the piece. Any movie where I don't like Fred Astaire's character is getting off on the wrong foot with me. And the leading characters that *are* pleasant, like Marjorie Reynolds, are bland. WHITE CHRISTMAS' story is milquetoast and safe, I'll grant you, but it's got Rosemary Clooney and Vera-Ellen supporting the two male leads and they keep things far more interesting with their massive talent -- Rosemary one of the best singers of her generation and Vera-Ellen possibly the best dancer ever to grace the screen.

I guess it boils down to this: one has a milquetoast and safe story with an incredibly talented cast, the other has a more interesting story, with milquetoast and safe feminine support. I'll take WHITE CHRISTMAS myself, although HOLIDAY INN has its many moments of pleasure.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

The trouble with HOLIDAY INN for me is that it's the main characters, the protagonists, that are unpleasant, not the Mr. Potters of the piece. Any movie where I don't like Fred Astaire's character is getting off on the wrong foot with me. And the leading characters that *are* pleasant, like Marjorie Reynolds, are bland. WHITE CHRISTMAS' story is milquetoast and safe, I'll grant you, but it's got Rosemary Clooney and Vera-Ellen supporting the two male leads and they keep things far more interesting with their massive talent -- Rosemary one of the best singers of her generation and Vera-Ellen possibly the best dancer ever tp grace the screen.

I guess it boils down to this: one has a milquetoast and safe story with an incredibly talented cast, the other has a more interesting story, with milquetoast and safe feminine support. I'll take WHITE CHRISTMAS myself, although HOLIDAY INN has its many moments of pleasure.

Guess I don't find the "HI" females as dull as you do - or the "WC" females as interesting.

I also think Crosby/Astaire trounces Crosby/Kaye. The chemistry of Crosby/Astaire is great - and even though Ted's kind of a jerk, I think Astaire makes him likable and fun.

If we all agreed on everything, it wouldn't be a very interesting HTF, would it?

 

[Ejanss]

I also think Crosby/Astaire trounces Crosby/Kaye. The chemistry of Crosby/Astaire is great - and even though Ted's kind of a jerk, I think Astaire makes him likable and fun.

Astaire was a smartass in all his films, even the RKO Ginger Rogers (Shall We Dance, for starters?) It comes with the territory, but placed against Crosby's characteristic laid-back overconfidence, the two HI characters just seem to deserve each other--That's part of the fun.
Didn't think it was any "meaner" than the string of Comden & Green MGM musicals (Singin', Band Wagon, Fair Weather), whose characters had wisecracking snap and were always at the mercy of their puffed-up egos, but got it all back together in time for the big opening night.

WC, OTOH, suffers from coming to the party too late--Television broadcast instead of variety shows, more focus on 50's post-Korea serviceman nostalgia for WWII vets, the "beatnik" parody of what was about to replace old-school musicals, and songs assembled out of existing past catalogs instead of the 40's song factory bringing new ones in.
It's not a "remake" per se, but the constant fan loyalty to the thinner later film feels like folks who get caught up in a limp remake without ever bothering to see the original, and then claiming it "wasn't as good" as the one they were indoctrinated upon.

 

[Rob_Ray]

Guess I don't find the "HI" females as dull as you do - or the "WC" females as interesting.

I also think Crosby/Astaire trounces Crosby/Kaye. The chemistry of Crosby/Astaire is great - and even though Ted's kind of a jerk, I think Astaire makes him likable and fun.

If we all agreed on everything, it wouldn't be a very interesting HTF, would it?

We can agree on that last point. And there's nothing wrong with Crosby and Astaire's chemistry either. It's the character as written that's offputting, not Mr. Astaire who can do no wrong as far as I'm concerned.

And as far as my liking Crosby and Kaye in WHITE CHRISTMAS, I'll add this: I'm not much of a Danny Kaye fan in his star vehicles. With a few exceptions, he's generally too much of everything for my taste..

 

[Colin Jacobson]

We can agree on that last point. And there's nothing wrong with Crosby and Astaire's chemistry either. It's the character as written that's offputting, not Mr. Astaire who can do no wrong as far as I'm concerned.

I honestly never saw Ted as that big of a prick! Maybe that's because I'm a prick myself and I can't tell the difference!

 

[Rob_Ray]

... songs assembled out of existing past catalogs instead of the 40's song factory bringing new ones in.

Take all the trunk songs out of WHITE CHRISTMAS and you're still left with "The Best Things Happen While You're Dancing," "Sisters", "Snow", "Love You Didn't Do Right By Me", "Gee, I Wish I Was Back in the Army," "Choreography", "We'll Follow the Old Man Wherever He Wants to Go", "What Do You Do with a General?" (a fine song no matter what Mr. Maltin says) and the Oscar nominated "Count Your Blessings." That's a fine score by any measure.

 

[smithbrad]

Good points about the merits of each film. I've watched White Christmas during the holiday seasons of each year for probably the last fifteen years. Holiday Inn, on the other hand, is relatively new for me, having watched it probably three times since last Christmas. I enjoy both, and which I would watch at a given time is driven more based on my current mood and the occasion at hand.

White Christmas I do find to be the safer of the two when watching with my children, now 7 and 11. Since first watching it with them I've never had a reason to question anything in it. My oldest really enjoys the music and dancing and has probably watched it over 20 times.

I enjoyed my first viewing of Holiday Inn this past year, but will admit to cringing a bit when seeing the the little Father Time and Baby New Year scene. The "blackface" routine I could keep it to the context of the times. Knowing how much my oldest daughter would enjoy it, I explained those two scene and then made a copy with them removed so I would feel comfortable with her watching it at anytime. The "drunkiness" scene I could have done with out regarding her viewing, but I left them in due to their relevance within the story.

As for Kaye vs. Astaire in White Christmas, Astaire would have obviously been the better choice for the dance scenes, but for some of the comedic elements I think Kaye was the right choice. Also for the singing and the romantic interest with Vera-Ellen I lean towards Kaye. Holiday Inn though would not have been the same without Astaire.

So I can pretty much watch and enjoy both myself, but there are times when "safer" has its merits during the holiday season when watching as a family with young impressionable children. That's my take on the films.

 

[AshJW]

All the points that are mentioned pro and contra both films are understandable and acknowledgeable.

As far as it goes for me, I like both films, no matter what.

 

[GlennF]

I like both too, but White Christmas is all tied up with my youth. NBC used to broadcast it annually and it sort of became a tradition...like the Wizard of Oz. It was the only time you could see it.

Also, the Blu-ray of White Christmas looks beautiful and after seeing it in black and white for so many years it is a bit of a revelation.

The sound...not so hot.

Put me in the camp who like Rosemary and especially Vera - no doubt either her or Cyd Charisse were the best female dancers of the day.

Whenever I watch it I always wonder how it would have been if Donald O'Connor had, as originally planned, played the Kaye part. He and Vera made a great pair (see Call Me Madam) and then you wouldn't have had to have the character added to dance with Vera in a couple of the numbers since Danny Kaye was not up to it. The guy she dances with, whoever he was, was good, but has zero personality and a "crocodile" grin.