HK vs. Lexicon: what are the Logic 7 differences?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Dale_S, Mar 1, 2002.

  1. Dale_S

    Dale_S Stunt Coordinator

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    Plain and simple.... I am considering the Harman Kardon AVR320 as an interim replacement for my Denon 5800 while it's away for service. After that, the HK AV320 moves to the bedroom/den.

    Now the question: in my research I keep seeing grumblings that Logic 7 on the HK line is somehow 'crippled'. What are the differences between the HK and the Lexicon implementations?

    The only info I have come across is that the HK has only 4 Logic 7 modes. Is this of real significance? I will be using the piece with a 6.1 setup while the Denon is away, and then as a 5.1 piece when moved to the bedroom/den.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Shawn Fogg

    Shawn Fogg Stunt Coordinator

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    Dale,

    " I keep seeing grumblings that Logic 7 on the HK line is somehow 'crippled'. What are the differences between the HK and the Lexicon implementations? "

    It definitly is crippled compared to Lexicons.

    HKs Logic 7:

    Only works on 2 channel sources (Lex L7 works on 2 channel, DD and DTS)

    Doesn't have any of the Effect Adjustment parameters that the Lexicon's have (for tailoring the mode to your tastes)

    Is 5.1 channel only (must have a center channel and can't do side and rear surrounds like a Lex)

    Shawn
     
  3. John Tompkins

    John Tompkins Supporting Actor

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    Dale, logic 7 on HK recievers cant be used with digital sources {dd dts} I guess HK figures that if they added it to thier recievers that it might hurt the lex.

    oops, Shawn beat me to the punch...
     
  4. Alex Yang

    Alex Yang Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi um newsflash here???

    HK crippled Logic 7 so as NOT to hurt the sales of Lexicon???!?? HK = Lexicon as Toyota = Lexus Honda = Accura???!

    Sorry, not a big follower of HK or Lexicon so this is news to me???

    I'm assuming there is a connection because:

    1. HK has Logic 7 decoding (albeit 2 channel and "crippled")

    2. Not hurt the sales of Lexicon???

    -Alex
     
  5. John Tompkins

    John Tompkins Supporting Actor

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    Alex, either HK owns lex or lex owns HK, cant remember which.
     
  6. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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    Lexicon is owned by Harman International.

    M.
     
  7. Phil M

    Phil M Stunt Coordinator

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    I just happen to own the 320, and the Logic 7, crippled as it may be, was still the deal maker for me. The HK gives a person the easy ability to compare DPLII and L7, and for me I prefer the L7 in Cinema mode for both music and movies.

    Right out of the manual:

    "... offers Harman International's exclusive Logic 7 process in both 5.1 and 7.1 versions to creat a wider..."

    "... while the 7.1 versions of Logic 7 produce a full sound field presentation, including back surround speakers when the 6.1/7.1 option is chosen.. "

    No, you cannot apply it to digital sources, but it does do 5.1 and 7.1, and offers (3) different modes: cinema, music, and enhanced.

    For TV, sat, and DVD's in DD 2.0, I think it does a wonderful job.

    I've never had a LEX, so I don't know what options are "stripped", I'm guessing just some custom parameters, and the ability to apply it to a digital source.

    Phil
     
  8. Dale_S

    Dale_S Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks guys.... not being able to apply it to digital sources isn't a deal breaker for me. I really only wanted it for 2 channel sources anyhow. I guess that means analog only for my 2 channel laserdiscs and DVDs. Based on Phil's comment, I gather there are 6 possible Logic 7 variations on the HK units:

    Logic 7 5.1 Music

    Logic 7 5.1 Cinema

    Logic 7 5.1 Enhanced

    Logic 7 7.1 Music

    Logic 7 7.1 Cinema

    Logic 7 7.1 Enhanced

    Am I right? Regardless, it looks like it's the front contender for my bedroom/den setup. Since I'm now on a week's vacation, I'll be doing some more demos over the next few days. Thanks again for the help.
     
  9. Shawn Fogg

    Shawn Fogg Stunt Coordinator

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    Dale,

    "... not being able to apply it to digital sources isn't a deal breaker for me. I really only wanted it for 2 channel sources anyhow. I guess that means analog only for my 2 channel laserdiscs and DVDs. "

    No, you can use a digital connection from your LD. It can work on a digital PCM source.

    Shawn
     
  10. Adil M

    Adil M Supporting Actor

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    So say I have a 5.1 setup and prefer Logic 7 to DPLII. The HK's sound great and look nice. What else would compare? It's not like I can use Logic 7 on a DD 5.1 setup if I'm only running 5.1. I think if you have a 5.1 setup the HK's would be great.
     
  11. Phil M

    Phil M Stunt Coordinator

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    Adil:

    I'm not sure if I understand your post, but yes you can use Logic 7 in a 5.1 set-up OR a 7.1 set-up (it's selectable depending on # of speakers). You just can't apply it to a 5.1 source (digital input) You can of course in the case of a DD 2.0 signal, just use the analog outputs (stereo)of your DVD player and then apply Logic 7 to the 2 channel source.

    Phil
     
  12. Adil M

    Adil M Supporting Actor

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    I was just trying to state that the benefit of Logic 7 isn't crippled for those w/ a 5.1 setup. I've heard DPLII and L7 and preferred L7 for a 5.1 setup (fuller, no gaps). None of the other receivers can compare considering this preference of mine. Since it would be useless to add L7 to DD in a 5.1 setupm, even if it was possible, I'm simply stating that HK L7 isn't really "crippled" for those w/ a 5.1 setup.

    ALso, I'm pretty sure the HK receivers are only amped for 5 channels and most people are still int the 5.1 stage and not the 7.1 stage of "audiophile-hood."
     
  13. David John

    David John Stunt Coordinator

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    What alex is missing is the simple reason that if Harman Int'l put the same features on a $500 H/K receiver as on a $3000 Lex processor, why would anyone shell out the extra money for the Lex?

    They are owned by the same company, but they have to make a discernable difference between the 2 product lines.

    I would have gone with an H/K if the Logic-7 was usable for 5.1DD sources, however on the 520, which I was looking at, there is no DD-ex processing, only DTS-ES. So had they given the "full" version of Logic-7, they would have had my business. Instead I got a Yammi v1200.
     
  14. Han

    Han Second Unit

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    I have an HK 310, so no DPLII, but there is Logic 7. Whether I put it in music or cinema mode, once in a while it has little problems. Slight bleeding and static sounds get into the rear speakers for older cable TV movies and some lesser network TV shows. Like "Angel" and other WB / UPN shows. I'm not sure if this is the case with the new HKs or Lexicons, but I've heard both L7 and DPLII can run into this problem.

    Otherwise, it usually sounds great for analog sources.
     
  15. Adil M

    Adil M Supporting Actor

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    I've had similar results, Han. The static can be easily heard by turning off everything but the surrounds.
     
  16. Chriss M

    Chriss M Second Unit

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    Did a quick search but turned up nothing on this. Maybe somebody can list the differences between HK's and Lexicon's implementations of Logic 7? I assume HK's is limited in some way?
     
  17. Chriss M

    Chriss M Second Unit

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    i guess i was using the wrong search terms because i came up with some info on this. So i guess the difference is that Logic 7 on the HK's can only be used with 2 channel analog sources? Is this preferrable to DPL2?
     
  18. Greg Hamilton

    Greg Hamilton Stunt Coordinator

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    On the H/K AVR8000 you can apply Logic 7 (5.1 or 7.1) using digital sources. I watched a DD5.1 movie last night in Logic 7 5.1 configuration - but I prefer using the appropriate decoding ie: DD 5.1 for a DD5.1 soundtrack.

    Has anyone tried using Logic 7 5.1 or 7.1 with digital sources on the new x20 line of H/K AVR's?-gh
     
  19. Richard Burzynski

    Richard Burzynski Second Unit

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    The HK receivers do allow L7 processing on digital sources, as long as they're the 2.0 variety.

    Greg,

    If what you are saying is true for the 8000 model, then we have a VERY interesting new HK product on the market. This thread should generate some noise now.

    Rich B.
     
  20. Greg Hamilton

    Greg Hamilton Stunt Coordinator

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    Like I mentioned in the thread... After seeing the post I decided to test my new AVR8000 and indeed it can apply Logic 7 to just about any source - DD2.0, DD5.1, PCM, analog. I did not test DTS sources.
    Do people actually use Logic 7 when watching a DVD encoded with DD5.1? Logic 7 does add a sense of extending the room dimensions, but I after doing tests between DD5.1, DD5.1 THX & Logic 7 5.1 C I prefered good ole' DD5.1 decoding. The test disc was SHINE (non-THX DD5.1).
    On the H/K 8000 you have the following Logic 7 modes:
    Logic 7 5.1 Music
    Logic 7 5.1 Cinema
    Logic 7 5.1 Enhanced
    Logic 7 7.1 Music
    Logic 7 7.1 Cinema
    Logic 7 7.1 Enhanced
    See my post on the AVR 8000:
    HTF AVR 8000 post
     

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