HK vs. Denon Consensus? (1 Viewer)

[Ryan Leemhuis]

This is why I asked

 

[dany]

audioreviews.com
reviews-zdnet.com
audioholics.com
cnet.com
You'll get mostly 2805 but for the most part,they are the same. Go to denon's website and click on the star and you can compare recievers side by side spec's,it helps some.

 

[Shiu]

If he does that, he may want to go for the 2805. The 2805 and the 3805 are really similar (e.g. 0,05% THD) except for a few watts and minor features less. There is a jump between the 2105 and 2805.

 

[Ryan Leemhuis]

Shiu I am already stretching the budget with the ones I am looking at, unless there is some sort of magical clearance somewhere, this is the highest I can go. (I am only a college student)

 

[Shiu]

Apparently What hi*fi sound and vision (U.K.) magazine's December issue awarded the 2105 best of something. I have the Nov issue, that has given the 2805 the best buy award in the mid range category but I don't have the Dec issue. What hi*fi does not publish its reviews on line. You may be able to read it in a large book store, e.g. Indigo, or library. I found two not too helpful reviews:

http://www.digitalhomemag.com/review...bsectionid=954
http://www.soundsystemsinc.net/packages.html

Other than that, there are a few user reviews on the web and they are all good, I am sure you read them already.

FYI, here are links to S&V mag lab measurements of the HKAVR330(should be similar to the 335, less the latest features)and the Denon AVR2805 (the 2105 may be similar but less powerful)

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/ass...2004163324.pdf

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/ass...xtendedlab.pdf

If you don't have a large room or inefficient speakers, the 2105 should be fine. If you need more power you can always add an used 2 or 3 channel amplifier in the future. One thing about Denon, there seem to be very few complaints in terms of reliability. Good luck!

 

[Ryan Leemhuis]

Wow Shiu you continue to be a ton of help. Sounds like both are real winners. I wonder, how important is the Equalizer in the HK. This is one of the features it has that the Denon does not.

 

[Steve Schaffer]

The HK 335 doesn't have eq, it does have an automated system for setting distance and channel levels but not eq.

The HK 435 and 635 do have the eq. I have a 635 and have used a Pioneer VSX-45tx (similar to the 1014), Yamaha RXV-1400, and Denon 2805, all with auto setup and auto eq. The 635/435 use the same eq system and in my setup it's a quantum leap above the others I've tried. It will do a parametric eq even on the sub, none of the others will. This is like having an automatic Behringer Feedback Destroyer built into your receiver (I used a BFD with the other receivers, don't need it with the HK.)

 

[Ryan Leemhuis]

Steve check out this link:

LINK

Looks like they are misadvertising? Then someone tell me one reason I should continue considering the HK versus the denon? It seems like the Denon has everything that the HK has and more

 

[BradZ]

I use www.epinions.com to find professional reviews on all a/v equipment.

just remember that no professional review is better than your ears or eyes when it comes to buying gear.

 

[ErichH]

I vote HK every time in your price range.
E

 

[Jose G]

I think only you can decide that based on what you want and what you need. I say figure that out and then let your ears do the picking.

 

[Steve Schaffer]

I went to Denon's website and checked this page:

http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/products.asp?l=1&c=2

It lists all the features of the Denon receivers.

On the top gray bar on each model listing there are some icons on the right side, one of which is a "product sheet".

If you click on the product sheet icon for the 2105 and read the sheet it describes the auto setup feature for "sound field adjustment". Note that no eq is mentionned, only auto setup. Now go up to the 2805 and check it's product sheet. You will find that it says in addition to auto speaker setup for soundfield adjustment there is an auto eq also done and goes into detail on that.

From this I would conclude that the 2105 does not do auto eq, only auto distance and level settings. Yamaha also does this, auto distance and level only until you get into higher end models. It would definitely appear that to get auto eq from Denon one must go up to the 2805 or higher, though I could be wrong. Perhaps a 2105 owner can confirm whether or not it has auto eq included in it's auto setup feature.

Also check this chart:

http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/pdf...%2083004v3.pdf

It also infers that the 2105 has auto setup but not auto eq as with the 2805 and 3805.

Since the HK 335's EZset+ is also auto distance and level with no eq, it will do everything the Denon will, and probably have much better overall sound quality if my experince with the HK 635 vs Denon 2805 is any indication.

 

[Ryan Leemhuis]

I just noticed that the AVR 435 is not for sale on harman kardon's website. It is also gone from digital1234.com. Is HK discontinuing this model?

 

[Nate_C]

I work at Circuit City and get accomondations through H/K providing me with any H/K product at cost, so that fact aside I own a Denon and like and have owned a Pioneer and liked it as well, but from personal experince the H/K is much more powerful and more natural sounding out of any of the three. Its high current circuitry really gets you power when you need it, the built in mike in the remote makes it ridiculously easy to set up, and the OSD is very user friendly if available on your model. I guess these are all opinions but I've tried all three and the 235 is incredible.

 

[Shiu]

There are more than one review that shows within the same price range Denon and Pioneer receivers are more powerful that Harman Kardon (e.g. AVR630 vs AVR3805), especially in 1 & 2 channel, and into 4 ohms (that requires high current capability).

I posted a couple of links to those lab measurements before, but to save you time I pasted the relevant parts here (could not do the graph thing):

HT Labs Measures: Harman/Kardon AVR 630
Five channels driven into 8-ohm loads: 0.1% distortion at 79.7 watts; 1% distortion at 93.3 watts

This graph (couldn't paste it) shows that the AVR 630's left channel, from CD input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1% distortion at 84.6 watts and 1% distortion at 100.6 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1% distortion at 146.9 watts and 1% distortion at 170.8 watts.

HT Labs Measures: Denon AVR-3805
Five channels driven into 8-ohm loads: 0.1% distortion at 114.9 watts; 1% distortion at 125.0 watts

This graph shows that the AVR-3805's left channel, from CD input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1% distortion at 132.2 watts and 1% distortion at 162.3 watts. Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1% distortion at 218.4 watts and 1% distortion at 243.0 watts.

H.K. always refers to its high current claim as "instantaneous", not continuous. On instantaneous basis, any Denon from 2105 up, Pioneer from 1014 and Yamaha from 1400 up, can deliver high currents. H.K. makes great products but sometimes people blow this high current thing out of proportion.

Just because HK are honest about their power output does not automatically make them more powerful than other similarly priced products.

 

[gene c]

I also remember a test of the 110 wpc H/K 7300 that put out 143 wpc, all channels driven, 8 ohms @ .07 thd and another on a 90 wpc Denon that put out 86.something wpc. This isn't kudo's for H/K and bashing of Denon. You can find simular test results for any brand if you look hard enough. I'm currently comparing a 3 year old H/K 520 (75 wpc) to my new 1014 and the H/K doesn't seem to have any trouble keeping up with the 1014. It does run hotter but it hasn't shut down or melted my equipment rack so I don't worry about it. As for the H/K to Denon sound comparison, Iv'e never heard a Denon outside of a store so I can't really comment on it. But I am a big fan of my 520. But with H/K (and Klipch), people seem to love them or hate them. You know where I stand .

 

[Shiu]

If you are talking about the flag ship HKAVR7300 and its predecessor AVR7200, then I would even agree they are the best deals at under $2,500. The 7300 is probably one of the most powerful receiver one can get at any price. It also does it without a cooling fan. Obviously I do not feel the same about the lower models.

The lower models do sound great but they are not as powerful as people assume they are, e.g. their 75W X 7 is not really as powerful as a Denon or Pioneer Elite model's 120W X 7, though the gap is closer than it seems on paper, because HK rate their output very conservatively.

 

[gene c]

I don't know about the H/K 630/635, I've never had them, but I just did a side by side of my 520 75 wpc) and 1014 (110 wpc) using "Wasted Time, Reprise" from The Eagles Hotel California. I set my Polk RTi6's/4's and CSi5 to small, unplugged my subs (so not to bother my neighbors) and turned the 1014 up all the way. It sounded nice and clean and pretty loud. I then put the 520 in it's place and did the same thing, But I was only able to turn the volume up to +8 out of +12 because my ears started to bleed! The 520 was louder than the 1014. I'll trust my ears, or whats left of them , over some mag review any day. Besides, if all companies rated their stuff the same way, and honestly, we wouldn't be having this little "discussion" . I also think most people put to much emphasis on power. Thats how these ratings got out of hand in the first place. Everyone trying to one-up the others. Anyway, all things considered, I bet the 635 can hold it's own against others in it's price class. And yes, I'd love to get my hands on a 7300. Or a 5805, Z9, 59XT whatever, or maybe that new $7000 Lexicon? Whoops, I'm dreaming again!

 

[Shiu]

I read about the claim that the 1014 is the same inside as one of the Elite model. I wonder how true that is, given that the price of the 1014 is much lower and if I remember correctly, the 1014 is not as heavy either.

In terms of trusting our own ears, I have not tried turning up my 3805 pass 0. It just got way too loud at that point, and my floor standing speakers are not even that efficient, at 87 dB sensitivity. With the volume at 0, I could only withstand the sound level for a few seconds. Regardless, I do feel that power should not be the deciding factor for someone choosing between a HK and Denon model at the same price point.

 

[Guy Usher]

My 1014 gets harsh when you crank it up past about -10. . . Depending on the source material but I only had her at 0 for an instant.

Once you start backing off the sound cleans back up but I think my JBL-E100s get edgy and harsh with the 1014 that loud (Too loud).