HK AVR Analog Bypass Possibility?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by AaronD, Sep 27, 2002.

  1. AaronD

    AaronD Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2001
    Messages:
    234
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I've got an AVR-310 at home, and I assume this will apply to other similar series as well.

    There has been quite a bit of talk in a few threads about the bass management on HK receivers. I noticed something last night, when you have an analog stereo source hooked up you can not choose small/large for the mains you can only choose subwoofer on/of and a 40/60 hz crossover point. Now, when you connect a digital source (say CD player) the full range of options are selectable.

    So, is it possible that when you have an analog source hooked up it is actually a bypass with the signal just tapped for processing and output to the subwoofer leaving the signal sent to the mains untouched?

    I have B&W DM604 mains and a Velo SPL-1000, when I have the x-over set to 60hz in the analog mode there seems to be too much in the low end. When I have the xover set to 40hz it seems just about right (40hz is about the natural roll off of the 604's). To me this seems to suggest that the mains are getting a full range (hopefully unprocessed) signal and with the sub at 60hz there is a doubling effect.

    Thoughts?

    -Aaron
     
  2. Paul Clarke

    Paul Clarke Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    998
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Aaron,

    I have the 510 and 310 and what you describe is similar to my experience. My Emerald 97's also fare better with the 40Hz setting. The Bass management choices with analog being limited to sub (L+R) or Sub (No) would also seem to confirm this.
     
  3. Eujin

    Eujin Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2001
    Messages:
    549
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The "doubling effect" sounds weird to me. I don't know off hand what your 604s are rated down to, but it seems to me that the in analog mode, a full-range signal is sent from the source to the receiver, which then routes bass frequencies below the x-over to your sub. If it sounds like there's too much bass at 60hz, it's likely that you're just hearing too much of your sub. There really shouldn't be much if any material below 60hz going to your speakers because that's what the x-over is for. Have you tried playing with the channel level (not just volume) setting for the sub? As for whether or not the HK is in a default analog bypass mode for analog sources, that's something I've heard from a couple of people before, but it's never been confirmed by anyone that I know of. I have a 320 myself and run my speakers (Triangle Titus 202) with the x-over at 60. Bass is handled by a SVS 25-31CS.
     
  4. Rob Rodier

    Rob Rodier Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2002
    Messages:
    538
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    On my avr45 which was a generation or so before, you can select sm/la etc with analog sources. You might want to give it another whirl.

    The only way I am aware of to do a true analog bypass is via the multichannel input.


    -rob
     
  5. Eujin

    Eujin Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2001
    Messages:
    549
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Found this posted in another thread:


    ------------

    "The AVR320 does not have the analog bypass feature found in the AVR125 and AVR225. The AVR320 will process all audio through its DSP, with the exception of 6/8channel direct inputs which do not apply any bass management settings. I hope this helps.

    Sincerely,
    Harold Kevelos
    Internet Support Specialist"

    -----------

    I'd still take anything that HK "tech support" says with a grain of salt, but I guess that's the official position.
     
  6. AaronD

    AaronD Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2001
    Messages:
    234
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Paul,
    I'm glad someone else see this too... [​IMG] This would seem to suggest that a full range untouched signal is being sent to the mains while the sub is simply an addtional feed. This in effect would result in sending material below 60hz or 40hz to both the mains -and- the sub.
    Eujin,
    The 604's are +/- 3db @ 38hz I believe. What I'm debating here is wether or not the x-over is a low pass and a high pass, or if it is just a low pass and sends an untouched 'direct' signal to the mains. I've also seen that post, which is one of the reasons I started my thread. If the analog sources are processed through the DSP why aren't the same options available as when it's a digital connection. The options would seem to suggest an analog path with just a mere tap for the sub output.
    Rob,
    You can not do this on the AVR-310 with an analog source, if you use a digital connection then everything is available.
     
  7. Paul Clarke

    Paul Clarke Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    998
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Aaron,
    I agree. In the x10 (and x20 I believe) there is no speaker selection available on any analog input and the only speaker setting option is the sub on/off and sub (L+R). As I often use the 6 channel direct (which has no processing) for 2 channel play, it's a simple matter to run some Y's to the CD or DVD analog in as well. Switching back and forth between them has never revealed the slightest difference to my ears...either both with sub or both without. Maybe my ears need a good cleaning.[​IMG]
    On a more serious note, the Stereo (Surround Off) setting in the x10-x20's has no allowance for bass management but the new x25's do. The STEREO-DIRECT (Bypass) mode preserves the analog signal path through to the speaker AND subwoofer outputs. The STEREO-DIGITAL can be used with both analog/digital and does apply bass management. I believe the former is just a restatement of the x10, x20 situation in this regard even though their manuals did not state this. But the latter is something new entirely and very welcome. I look forward to auditioning the new 525 when it finally appears.
     
  8. Nathan_W

    Nathan_W Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2001
    Messages:
    206
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  9. Cooper_B

    Cooper_B Agent

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2002
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    After reading this thread, I contacted Harman Kardon again to double check about analog bypass. Here's the response:

    "The AVR320 does not have any programmable bass management when in the stereo
    mode. Nonetheless, the signal does undergo AD and DA conversion and is not a
    direct analog bypass signal. The AVR125 and AVR225 offer direct analog
    bypass and it is likely that next generation versions of the AVR320 and
    AVR520 will have this feature as well.

    Sincerely,
    Harold Kevelos
    Internet Support Specialist"
     
  10. Adil M

    Adil M Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2001
    Messages:
    922
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I believe (positive) the post above is correct b/c it completely seconds my experiences, but I'll doublecheck friday.
     
  11. AaronD

    AaronD Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2001
    Messages:
    234
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks to all who have replied.
    Cooper_B,
    Interesting, I wonder why it doesn't give you all the normal bass management features that are available when a digital connection is used. If it's still going through the AD-DA process it would seem that it should be available. For now I'm just using the digital out from my CD player, why go through the conversion process multiple times? I would still like to have an analog bypass, but what ya gonna do? I'm sure upgradeitis will take care of this within a year or so. [​IMG]
    -Aaron
     

Share This Page