High End Store Rant (1 Viewer)

[Sebastien David]

the other day, guy walks in to buy a DVD player, torn jeans and dirty T-shirt (coming back from work I guess). spent an hour with him, he bought the DVD player, a receiver, a sub, and three speakers.

the smart salespeople never assume anything about a customer, as you're bound to get surprised sometimes.

however, spending 2 hours with a really annoying person only to hear him tell you "well, I'll think about it, maybe next year..." tends to make one cynical when it happens as often as it does. then again, my store is situated in a mall, therefore we get a lot of dumbasses like that who just want to wait for their wives to finish shopping while they have a good time at my expense. so maybe that affects my view somehow.

you've just got to understand that there are as many bad customers as there are bad salespeople. you're the exception, not the rule, unfortunately, at least in my experience. people will get their info from the best and most knowledgeable salesperson, but they don't tend to see that as value, and too often they see no problem in buying somewhere else if it's cheaper, without even asking if we can't lower the price a bit to price match the competition.

I'm guessing not many of them are aware that salespeople mostly work on commission, or hopefully they'd have a different attitude. As a general rule, comebacks are very few in this business, i.e. you give out a lot of business cards, but you see few of those customers come back!

 

[Adil M]

I stopped giving cards out and told them that if they respected me and appreciated my service they'd come back to ME. It worked for a while... They never remember my name, but they do remember to tell me what they bought later. What am I supposed to do pat them on the head?
It's all an odds thing. Upon talking to a reasonable person you can figure out their interest level and intent to buy anytime soon. However, if the customer intends to mislead you, b/c he assumes that YOU were going to lie to him or treat him less otherwise... hmmm.. kettle ... black... It happens too often.
Less ethics/more salesman, equals lots of money and this has been proven year after year by our customers voting w/ their dollars on the complete idiots.
PS
I am proud that one of my customers came back and returned $1900 in Bose speakers for Infinity speakers and a Velodyne subwoofer.

 

[Doug_B]

then again, my store is situated in a mall, therefore we get a lot of dumbasses like that who just want to wait for their wives to finish shopping while they have a good time at my expense. so maybe that affects my view somehow.

Yup, that changes everything. Your clientele is composed of less HTF types and audiophiles, by percentage, than the other high end shops that are being discussed in this thread, IMO.

Doug

 

[Angelo.M]

I didn't know I worked in the explain, demonstrate, translate, and help dept...

Adil:

If a salesperson doesn't consider the tasks of explanation, demonstration, translation (of technical jargon or other terminology) and helping a customer as part of his/her job, than that salesperson should look for another line of work.

If I knew of a store in which salespeople had your attitude, I'd make it my business to never patronize it, and I'd encourage my friends and colleagues to do the same.

--AM

 

[Sebastien David]

we don't mind doing all that, but we expect a reward at the end. the ultimate purpose and job of a salesperson is to SELL. we're on commission, which means that if we just take it slow and put no pressure and limit ourselves to explain, demonstrate, translate, troubleshoot and help people with no strings attached, the unfortunate reality is that we're going to starve to death.

sorry, but that's the stark reality. the most aggressive salespeople get the most money. I try to strike a just balance, because I couldn't live with myself if I knew I was doing a disservice to a customer. however, if I can sell the extended warranty, the expensive cable, or upgrade a customer from product X to product Y, I'm going to do it.

If we worked on a fixed salary, everything would be different, but our employers would make a lot less money as well, unfortunately.

It would also help if the majority of customers were honest and forward. Unfortunately, the "sniffers-around" couldn't have as much fun sniffing around anymore, now could they?

It's like people working in marketing. their job, the way they get their money, is by purposefully trying to influence people to buy a product they wouldn't have bought otherwise. oh how can they live with themselves, let's start a rant about marketing companies!!

Everybody's fighting for the consumer's dollars, the most aggressive wins most times, so why should we just sit back and watch others read the rewards of our knowledge and passion?

You don't know how frustrating it is to spend an afternoon explaining everything and being nice to someone only to have them go away and buy somewhere else because they gave them a 5% discount until it's happened to you.

We salespeople have all been customers in the past. Unfortunately, most customers have never been salespeople. Guess who understands the other party better? Salespeople generally make the best customers, at least that's what computer and furniture/appliance salespeople have told me when I shopped for and bought those items! I understood their position, tried not to take too much of their time uselessly, got a fair price and when something broke down, didn't go down to the store like a madman, demanding to see the salesperson and giving him shit because what he sold me broke. I understood it was not his fault, he was apologetic, I was understanding, and good business ensued. Very rare.

I just wish all customers were like the people who frequent these boards, i.e. educated, polite, well-mannered and respectful of the salesperson's job... well mostly anyways! ;-)

 

[Adil M]

I hate doing this.
Angelo said:
Let's not state the obvious. I fully agree, but you're missing the point. If a customer comes in just to get you to do that quoted part again and again and then comes to a decision shouldn't he BUY it from you?!? And when I meant translation I meant both translation for hispanic customers and translation of technical jargon. Angelo, on another note I know you are in the exact same area as me, so if you want to come in to CC and shop from others go ahead. I hope you get the two other guys that know what they are talking about. You should be ok since you have at least this board as a resource.
Well Angelo, how about we agree to disagree. I mean I think I've put my point across fairly clearly in this thread and don't see much more that I have to add. I don't want to play games w/ customers. I have pretty much replied to this thread from my perspective, although I don't work at a high-end store, it's CC. Maybe my comments don't fully apply tot he high-end world where there is much less traffic. Most of my posts in this thread do represent the "disgruntled" side of my attitude, b/c I believe there are two sides to every story including this thread. You can interpret my posts however you feel.
I'd probably love to sell or shoot the breeze w/ most people on this board (I send enough people here), but if they are leading me on w/ an unattainable carrot, b/c of A. My knowledge B. Willingness to help and C.Pretty nice personality, well I am going to figure the game out eventually and be peeved. I've probably sold half the stock from our next door Paradigm dealer and sent people to Best Buy and Now Audio Video (local high-end). I try to be truthful and expect it in kind. I know... maybe... I'm asking the impossible. Since, I don't do it for the money I'd think I'd be a leg-up on others just to begin w/. At least I know I'm not alone in this feeling toward "some" customers.

 

[Boaty McBoatface]

Many of you salesmen out there have stated that you wish that customers are honest about their intentions. But I have to say, many times I have been honest about what I am looking for and the salesman would be only interested in making his sale. For example, I am married and I can't go and just by everything I wanted. I have to convince the wife into not having a canipition when I buy something at a price that she may feel is outrageous. I would always say what I am looking for, I would ask about the pros and cons, and what's the best price I could get it for. Then I would tell them that now I needed to go home and sell it to the wife, and I would get stuff like "come on, just do it. Who wears the pants in the family." Just continually pushing.

Just as you guys are trying to sell the product to me. I have to go and sell it to the significant other. Trust me, as much as you want to sell the product to us, we really want to buy it from you. We also want to spend the least amount money for it, not so we can have money left over in our pockets, but so we can buy other things from you. For those of us who live don't "whatever the cost I'll buy it world", somethings just work out and sometimes they don't. We just ask for you to help us out.

Now, I must say That many of the salesmen at my local high end shop " Classic Stereo". I have had some of those snobish salesman problems that many here have talked about. But for the most part they are as a whole wonderful people. I have seen them treat most people with equal importance. From the elderly couple who is just looking for a small counter top television for the kitchen to the Bill Gates wannabe's plans to buy one of everything in the building.

In fact I feel the difference between CC, Best Buy, ABC Wharehouse, and my local Hifi store is that the big chian stores are trying to me their products and my local hifi shop is trying sell me the product that I want to buy.

 

[Chu Gai]

Well, being treated well or poorly is just one of those things we go through. I think its good form when one's treated well to write a complimentary letter to the manager or for that matter the owner of the store/chain outlining the details. Likewise, if you're displeased do the same. Sometimes the message gets through.

 

[Levesque]

I'm a pharmacist. Own 3 pharmacy, 75 employees. I treat everyone at the same level. I got the mayor and conselors of my town all coming at my place, and they got the same politeness and care as someone on well-fare. My "dirtiest" customers are all farmers, but some of them are so rich, it's unbelievable. I've had 300% growth in 3 years, and put my nearest competitor in bankruptcy in 3 years!! (just bought him). I'm competitionning with Wal-Mart and other big chains. And stealing a lot of patient from them...

How to do this?? Treat everyone on the same level, rich or poor.Never judge a book by the cover. Every person is a potential customer. When I don't do a sell because my competitor sell it for less, I tell them to try to receive "free" medical advice and info from any other pharmacist in the region. I know that around 90% of those persons come back after and transfer their files, and families files.

But, when I go in a high-end store, wearing jeans and T-shirt (I wear a tie all week at work...), I often receive a snobish treatment, because I look like 20 years old (and I'm 30). I could buy the store cash!! It's really frustating sometimes. Because I treat my customers the other way around!! So I do the same trick, when I go in a store and receive no service at all, then I go somewhere else.

Another good exemple. I went in a popular furniture store with wife. We look around. After 15 minutes, finally someone come see us. My wife ask to see white tables..."White is obsolete. Don't buy this, etc, etc. Will need a custom made, really pricey...". Went next door, very nice service. We bought for 4000 square feet worth of furniture for my new house. Imagine the commission for this young dude, that didn't judged us by the cover...

 

[Adil M]

Billy,
I fully understand. I have never given a customer any grief about having to sell it to their wife. In fact, I often have to resell it to the wife. However, I know some of the salesguys do use denigrating comments to get you to buy now.
Actually, when one comes in trying to get a discount, at worst (not always), 1)I may have to sell it to him, 2)his wife, 3)sell the discount to my manager (hard), 4) Do a credit card app and hope it goes through, 5)then there's inventory, delivery other minor stuff.
All of that is part of the job, but you got a chance w/ even the hardest person. You don't have a chance w/ some customers. I think the golden rule pretty much answers this thread.

 

[jeff peterson]

IMHO, all the sales people who've posted in this thread are missing a very important point. Many of them say that they can tell if a customer is just jerking them around with no intention to buy. How do they know? Give us the specifics?
Is it the clothes they wear, do they come out and tell you they're jerking you around, do they say "just looking"? What?

The point is we're complaining about snobbish salespeople with specifics. You claim to want to spend your valuable time only on those customers you perceive to have cash to buy. Our whole point was that your perception is (many times) incorrect and you're shooting yourselves in the wallet.

 

[Matt Jesty]

The point is we're complaining about snobbish salespeople with specifics. You claim to want to spend your valuable time only on those customers you perceive to have cash to buy. Our whole point was that your perception is (many times) incorrect and you're shooting yourselves in the wallet.
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I used to follw my stepfather into the local mercedes dealership every two years when I was a kid ...he was dressed in ratty jeans ,beat-up deck shoes, and a sweater with worn elbows(always his casual atire) ...He would walk arround looking at the models he had narrowed it down to and after a long delay it was usually some hungry young salesman who would come up to him...if my stepfather got good answers, good attitude, and proper attention he would buy two cars (1 for him ,1 for my mother) much to the delight of that salesperson...That lesson has not been lost on me.........I give good, honest advice in copious quantities to customers who seem appreciative and definately needed someone to set them straight on some Huge misconceptions ....I will steer them often away from bose, which they often came in to see (and is price fixed and pays very well) ,and towards a system that better suits their needs only to see them later with manuals talking to another salesman about a hook-up problem that they're having with these products that they bought on-line....
If they had stated from the outset that they weree buying on price alone then I could have politely shown them how to work the speaker switchers and walked awy knowing that they didn't need my assistance......
If your salesperson treats you badly don't buy from him, he won't be around long. However if you get a good salesperson ,try to be a good customer ....

 

[Steve K.H.]

Honesty and Integrity... if salespeople keep that at hand, they get my business. If they lie... they are done like dinner. I'll make 'em look stupid out of spite before I brush them off too.

As an example, out shopping for vehicles. I KNOW what the margins are, the lot allowances, etc. The standard "well we can go xxxx off on that" comes out. I counter with what they really can do, and the moment they put on that "Oh, we could NEVER go that low" posture in effect, I just counter...

"Yes you can"

No is always the second reply... it's now been affirmed... and then I let loose the reasons... closing remark is always "Well I'll drop by another time, but I guess you and I won't be talkin' then."

Sort of off topic, but same applies with the audio stores. NEVER negotiate from a position of weakness. Find out what the current selling price is locally and online and try and find something that the dealer can work with. Don't for a moment expect the dealer to match the online price cuz after all, you are paying to hopefully gain a relationship, convenience, and a trouble shooter.

But when the high end dealer says something stupid like "We can perhaps knock 5 - 10% off of the retail price", just say something like "That's a good start, cuz your retail prices are too high anyway". Then start talking about the 15, 20, 25% discount. Use cash as a last incentive, you're saving the store about 2.5% off the top as well.

If you can't trust the salesperson, don't deal with them. If you find someone you can trust... keep supporting them AND send your friend's his/her way.

 

[Luis C]

Its funny how people throw around what they think a "fair price" should be or "I should get X% off the retail price" without any idea what it takes to run a real electronics retail store in todays retail climate.

I will say this for the record...

The only significant situation that has occurred because of the growth of internet sales is a complete erosion of people's perception of the value of knowledge. Anyone that complains of having shoddy sales people with little or no knowledge of the audio/video world should consider how much of that "sales knowledge" erosion is directly the result of "stack 'em and sell 'em" retailers, internet sales wh***s and the general publics sentiment that an item is only worth what its production cost is... that equation doesn't work when you factor in the hundreds of expert sales people and technically-minded sales consultants that have gone on to do something more profitable. I for one would certainly NOT put my 26 years of extensive, hard-earned knowledge and experience on a sales floor to have someone come in a tell me "I will only buy it if you give me 25% (or whatever) off" 'cause I saw it on the web cheaper after I had spent my time and energy on helping them. My reply would be real simple... have fun and don't let the door hit your a** on the way out!

I applaud those sales people that STAND UP to this c**p every day and do work hard at knowing as much as they can and providing the "Joe average" customer some level of decency. What needs to be done is a re-education of eitquette for the typical customer today... the education being "if you expect the cheapest price, then don't expect any service or support, period!"

And before the flaming arrows start flying... if you are a legitimate customer, this rant does not apply to you.

 

[Mark R. Ososkie]

I usually stay away from smaller, privately owned Hi-Fi stores because it seems to me that most of the employees at places like that work on comission, and if you're not willing to make a huge purchase (over 10k) you will recieve the same level of service (or lower) you would at a chain store (such as best buy, CC not included, workers there are paid commission and actually seem to give a damn).
Me and my dad looked around the store for about 10 minutes before someone actually got up and helped us.
I was interested in buying a HT (reciever, speakers, dvd player) for around 5 grand, and i went to a local place called Almas Hi-Fi, and i've never been treated so bad before at ANY store. Once i mentioned my budget, he tried his hardest to get me out of the store. He told me to go to www.ubid.com and find stuff there, instead of buying from the store he worked at. He then boasted about how he has spend $16k on his HT, and "isnt nearly finished with it". This..was pretty shocking. He had a lisp too, and couldnt say the word sony (he was saying thony, it was classic).
I guess he was angry because he was supposed to be working at the royal oak store and wasnt..he didnt realize that it really wasnt my problem and shouldnt take his anger out on me
I'm not letting that drive me away though, ill be heading there tommorow to talk to audition some klipsch and b&w floorstanders, but if i get an extremely crappy level of service again, i WILL tell the person helping me to go get another salesman, send him over my way, and not come with him.
It was very hard to restrain myself from..doing something drastic

 

[Bill Lucas]

Luis,

Well said. In owning a custom installataion business I'm in an enviable position. We do NOT negotiate price because of the level of service and expertise that we provide.

Customers should always get treated with courtesy and respect but they have no right to tell me what I need to charge for an item. They have no idea of costs associated with running my business nor do they have the right to determine my gross profit margin or my margin after the cost of doing business has been taken out. They can choose to buy elsewhere but they will not dictate pricing.

 

[Steve K.H.]

Anyone who uses the internet as an expectation of what the retail store should sell the product for is ignorant, and / or unrealistic.
It DOES (however) present bargaining power. The consumer must first appreciate the additional benefits from a local purchase, a trustworthy salesperson, a "friend" if you will, and balance this against the additional costs that attach to a local purchase (to offset the overhead for the retailer as opposed to to an online discounter.)
The HT stores I purchase from are both willing to concede on pricing. Ultimately though, the success of the relationship is predicated on their willingness to accept, and my willingness to present, an offer.
Varied companies have different philosophies though. Some have extremely high prices (i.e. MSRP) tagged on their products, and from there the concessions begin.
The idea here is that they cater to a market that later can boast "I have an $xxxxx system" but all the while they actually paid x% less than the benchmark price.
Others immediately offer "reduced" or "competitive" pricing. Their niche includes the informed purchaser; one who knows a deal when they see it. In the alternative, the sales pitch begins with "well, if you go to ABC Electronics, you can pay x% more for the very same piece(s)"
Business is of course a fine balance. Does the retailer look to provide increased sales at reduced margins, or perhaps less sales with larger margins (or something in between?)
As yet, integrity and honesty will always win out in my book. A salesperson that attempts to sell unnecessary goods, incompatible (yet higher priced goods), or perhaps exclaim this is "their very best price" when it OBVIOUSLY is highly overpriced on the competitive market, was perhaps a lawyer in their last life, and will return as a leech in their next.

 

[Luis C]

Some have extremely high prices (i.e. MSRP) tagged on their products, and from there the concessions begin.

Steve, where do you get the notion that MSRP is "an extremely high price"? Do you have any idea what the profit margin on the typical consumer electronics product is nowadays? I think you really need to reconsider this position of yours.

Yes, the box-mover accounts look like they are providing a discount. What many don't realize is the price level they purchase at... many times their margin is FAR greater than the independent retailers. Does anyone feel any better that they buy from companies with NO interest or knowledge of what they are really selling AND they still made a HUGE profit margin?

 

[Jeff Kohn]

Luis,
The internet may not be helping any, as I'm sure it has pushed some good people out of the industry. But the problems discussed in this thread have existed for decades, it's nothing new.
You can talk all you want about the added value and knowledge of these local sales people, but I just don't see it in my experience. When I'm going to make a significant purchased, I do as much independent research as I can. By the time I make it to the store, I almost always know more about the product in question than the salesperson does. Aside from letting me audition the equipment, they're offering me no added value. Now granted, the opportunity to audition is valuable, and I expect to pay some premium for that privelege. But not several hundred dollars. It's just not worth it.
If these botique shops want to survive, they're going to have to adapt, it's as simple as that. The internet hasn't just changed things by producing mail-order shops that sell bulk quantities of equipment at discounted prices. In fact, much of the more expensive equipment is still not available for purchase online. I think the biggest change comes from the fact that internet results in more informed and more demanding customers. The days of uninformed customers susceptible to high-pressure sales tactics and vague buzzwords are coming to an end.

 

[Jeff Kohn]

Steve, where do you get the notion that MSRP is "an extremely high price"? Do you have any idea what the profit margin on the typical consumer electronics product is nowadays? I think you really need to reconsider this position of yours.

For some brands, MSRP is most definitely high, because it's a sales tactic. By inflating MSRP, they make the customer think he's getting a better deal when the salesman knocks 10%, as opposed to if MSRP was 10% lower and no discount was offered. And from what I've seen/heard, the margin on consumer electronics for MSRP is around 50%, ie 100% markup. Now I know that a retailer has overhead and expenses, and they don't get to pocket that entire markup as profit. But if a customer knows exactly what they want and doesn't need the "added value" of a local dealer, why should they pay for that privelege when they can purchase elsewhere?