Hi-power Plate amplifier - give your input (1 Viewer)

[John E Janowitz]

Cam, with the digital stuff, you keep doubling your power when you half inpedance. It's pretty linear. So your power supply to get 500W at 4ohm is about the same as to get 2000W at 1ohm. The problem is then that the price becomes almost the same. I should know within a week or two just how much everything is going to cost to do. Then I can give more of an idea. I'd really like to be able to have a 500W at 4ohm amp myself to go with the AV woofers. For now it may just be the same amp as the 2000W at 1ohm.

On the AV woofers, the 350W amps will push them to fairly good levels. Having a 500-1000W amp will give you a little more output and some more headroom. The AV12 works great in a 3 cubic foot PR enclosure(Thunder12.3) and the AV15 works very well in a 25.5" cube(Power15 cube. Either of these alignments gives an F3 point of about 18Hz, with lots of output capability.

John

 

[Shawn Solar]

How about a modular approach? offer an amp that has room for another upgrade. like those amps that are 5 mono blocks in one. add another power supply and amp channel that plugs in and automatically bridges with the other amp. It would make it stable into 4ohms and double the power. It cuts down on cost cuz it only needs one set of controls and chassis. Don't know how possible it is though. I figured that it might be cost prohibitive.

Now that dsp program you have sounds awesome! I've seen this in another highend product in I think sound & vision. It incorporated all sources and all speakers for around $8000. A little too much. $300 or less for the contoller and $500 for the amp with mic and setup disc right?

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Some people, in polls like these, reveal their very large funds resource, but they are not the average.

Exactly, that's why I'd love to see an alternative to the whole pro-amp/eq combo. $500 is reasonable for what is being described compared to what's out there (as is Tumult).
As we also see in polls like these, cost concerns are somewhat different for someone looking to resell the amp/driver etc. and make a profit, and I wouldn't want those concerns to cripple the potential for hobbyists by "dumbing down" the product to a particular price point purely to enhance its profit potential for a reseller.

 

[Peter Jessee]

OK, here's my daydream scenario for this new plate amp:

Power:

Nice thing is that because it's DSP you're able to do just about anything. You'd be able to have limitless EQ options, slopes, bands, Q's, etc. If you wanted to completely eliminate everything below say 15Hz, you could. No 2nd order or 4th order slope. You could literally brickwall anything below that frequency.

The plan will be to have this DSP control center be complete with a measurement mic and a pink noise generator. This would even allow you to measure the in room response curve with the click of a mouse. Then the DSP will have certain options that can be done automatically. One would be to completely flatten the response for you. No need to mess with sliders, or play by ear. It would all be automatic.

17" x 2" size for easy cabinet/rack mounting.

Ability to control 2 amp modules in mono, stereo left/right or front/back modes.

IR remote for on/off and gain. Separate level controls for each amp. Program recall buttons for different EQ curves. Probably more things I can't think of right now.

At least 4 parametric EQ bands per amp output.

LT programs separate for each amp output.

How about a digital ICBM crossover capability?

Price? Is $2-300 possible? I don't know how cheaply this can be done. Your idea of having 2 control boxes might be good - a basic single amp, LT/Parametric for $150, and a full blown dual channel, test mic, 5/6-channel crossover, remote version for $3-400 might be attractive options.

Just a few ideas to keep this thread interesting .....

 

[Cam S]

Peter, that's exactly what I want! Hopefully it can be done just like that!

 

[Hank Frankenberg]

Jack:
You're obviously referring to me but you're wrong. I'm not trying to "dumb down" a cost so I can resell at a profit. I'm considering ME - my budget. I don't think I could resell a big sub. I'm not in the high end selling biz. Just as in Dan's ultimate sub driver thread, a few people asked for lowest cost bang-for-the-buck for personal economic reasons, and as usual, those requests were buried amongst the usual dumbing up of cost with lots of feature requests. Avid hobbyists who spend all their disposable income on the latest and greatest tend to make it difficult for other DIY-ers to afford products. Thank goodness for Outlaw Audio. All this is IMHO, of course - let's not argue.

 

[Seth_L]

Hank,

There are already a pile of bang for the buck drivers. The Tumult was not designed as a bang for the buck driver. It was designed to be a technology leader. No other 15" woofer can match it's linear displacement. It will get you very, very loud in a small box. Some people are willing to pay to "bend" the laws physics.

As to this thread and the amplifier question...

Why don't you make an amp that simply holds it's power rating, but it 4, 2, and 1 ohm stable? I believe there are some digital car amps like this. Couldn't you make an amp that has 1000W into both 4, 2, and 1 ohm loads?

Seth

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Avid hobbyists who spend all their disposable income on the latest and greatest tend to make it difficult for other DIY-ers to afford products.

Thare are lots of cheap drivers available. Your concept of "value" needs refining.

 

[Hank Frankenberg]

I don't think my definition needs refining. Budget considerations are always there. Manufacturers can make products that perform great for the actual cost. Things like marketing, advertising and sales volume are what make the big differences in selling prices. I am professionally knowledgable in this are, BTW. Not arguing, just clearing up your misunderstanding of me as a "cheap" guy. If I were that, I'd like Bose and Radio Shack drivers. If I had only one hobby, I'd spend more on it and I do understand that Hi-Fi is the only hobby of some people. To each his own. Ahh yes, to drive a BMW and own the finest hi-fi electronics and front projector...not with kids in college

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Ahh yes, to drive a BMW and own the finest hi-fi electronics and front projector...

Hey, I'm driving a Saturn and a Shiva at the moment.
And this hobby is my cheap one...Les Pauls are getting too expensive.

 

[Anthony_Gomez]

And this hobby is my cheap one...Les Pauls are getting too expensive.

Jack, you and my future brother in law would have a field day if you ever met!!!
Right now he is at 1 bass, 2 accoustics, and 4 electrics
..and is working on getting another

 

[Isaac C]

The amp would most probably cost a mint to order from Australia, but I vote for the DSP-based pre-amplification. DSP chips are quite cheap now -- one could even order free samples from semiconductor manufacturers -- that a bit more funds could be spent on the power-amp section, particularly on the power supply

 

[MichaelAngelo]

Mr. Janowitz;

Any word on the amp?

 

[jeff lam]

I would definitelly agree with XLR inputs and clip indicator LED's.

 

[Jay_H]

JEJ:

His thought was to include a serial port on the control center. You can then plug into any computer and have a nice graphical user interface to fully adjust your EQ.

One thing: A lot of new computers out there today don't have serial ports, so perhaps a USB port would be better.
This control-box thing sounds like a very interesting product. I'm much more interested in it than I am in the amp.
And I'd forgive the serial-port thing if I could dial it in with my Palm....

 

[Mark gas]

In the car audio world you can pick up a 1200 to 1500 watt amp for under $400 shipped e.g. JBL 1200.1 or the ampman/adire audio revalution amp. So I would like to see 1200 to 1500 watt plate amp for hme use and maye make the same power at 2 and 1 ohms like the JBL does.

 

[Michael R Price]

John,

"Cam, with the digital stuff, you keep doubling your power when you half inpedance. It's pretty linear. So your power supply to get 500W at 4ohm is about the same as to get 2000W at 1ohm. "

How does this work? 2000W at 1 ohm is the same power as 2000W as 4 ohms - it's half the voltage and twice the current. What do these digital amps do that allows them to use a lesser power supply and still deliver the same power (more current) into the lower loads?

BTW, thanks for the e-mail.

 

[John E Janowitz]

Hi guys,

No official updates on the amp yet. I hope to talk to a few people regarding options later this week and hopefully get some estimated lead times, etc.

Regarding the power output, you will have a constant output voltage. Lowering impedance requires less power supply to get the same power output. So quick example.

2000W into 4ohm would be:

power is I^2 * R or 22.36A^2 * 4ohm = 2000W
the voltage is I * R or 22.36A X 4ohm = 89.4V

2000W into 1ohm would be:

power is 44.72A^2 * 1ohm = 2000W
Voltage is 44.72A X 1ohm = 44.72V

With the same voltage at 2ohm you get current of 22.36A and power of 1000W. With 4ohm you get current of 11.18A and power of 500W.

You can see that to do the same power into 1ohm as 4ohm requires half the power supply voltage. Going from a 45V power supply up to a 90V power supply is a big increase in price.

On other details, the XLR inputs would be convenient only for people connecting to other pro audio gear. This amp will be featured in our line of home theater subwoofers. Although there is room for some flexibility, I still need to remain with a certain feature set that I need. That was the other intention with the seperate control center. Keep the amp simple, then give all kinds of options to the users with the control center. That keeps with my goals and lets everyone else get what they want too.


John

 

[Michael R Price]

Oh, I was just thinking the extra current capability in the power supply would cost more money (with transformers at least, the cost is usually proportional to the total power rating and not the voltage or current alone). But if you can get a power supply deliver the same power for less money, I'm all for it.

 

[JimRHIT]

Well, the only solution that seems good for the new AV-series from Stryke is to make an amp box(separate console), and run the two subs(each at 1 ohm) in series, to the the 2 ohm out of the amp. Effectively giving each sub 500W and not breaking the bank. Otherwise, this really does not suit the dual 2 ohm coils very well now does it :frowning:
Only problem I have is that the subs are on different sides of the room :frowning: ... any ideas guys...cause I am kinda bummed...as I would rather do the plate amp thing. I am really tight on shelf space.
Jim