Hey Tom V., have you heard/done anything with this driver?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Josh Davidson, Jan 17, 2001.

  1. Josh Davidson

    Josh Davidson Stunt Coordinator

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    This isn't just for Tom, but I've asked about it before and nobody seemed to have heard of it. The driver is a Ground Zero Nuclear. It was originally designed for HT use and very much resembled a Bob Carver Sunfire with the wide rolled surround (in fact, at one point Carver was filing a law suit against Ground Zero, but I don't know if it ever went through). Anyways, they ended up being introduced to the car audio market and were a pretty big success considering their lousy marketing. They were popular because they were able to achieve phenomenal SPLs in low tuned sealed boxes (supposedly a single 15 could reach into the 140s in a sealed chamber, although the only official result I ever personally saw on paper was a 15 in a vented chamber that reached 145.1) Anyways, there were a few HT nuts on a car audio board I used to visit and they were always trying to convert people from using these subs in their cars to their homes. Supposedly, they were capable of really high output in the sub 20hz range and had high quality bass to boot. I never really paid much attention to any of that though because I wasn't interested in HT at the time, but I see that some people are using the Audiomobile Mass drivers quite a bit and as far as the car audio community is concerned, the GZ Nuke is a superior sub, at least in terms of performance in automobiles. Just curious, because I've looked at charts for the audiomobiles and they look great and GZs didn't use to run that much more than the Mass series. Although, I fear that GZ may have switched hands in my year of absence from car audio. I notice that the prices are a lot higher than they used to be. Anyways, enough babbling. I'm just curious to see if anyone has heard these performing in a home.
    *EDIT* GZ went out of business a little while ago, which would explain why their prices have skyrocketed.
     
  2. Julian Data

    Julian Data Second Unit

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    I have heard about the GZ from Chris Hoppe. They weight a lot! I recall over 60lbs or so. Do you have the T/S parameters handy?
    BTW, what's the cost?
    Julian
     
  3. Josh Davidson

    Josh Davidson Stunt Coordinator

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    No I don't. I'm having a hard time digging up info on them. The price has jumped to $500. They used to be much less, but I'm assuming that retailers are just charging that much now because they are out of production. They don't weight 60lbs. They weigh just under 40lbs. The heaviest commercial 15" sub I know of is the Digital Designs 9515 (I own this one: http://www.msu.edu/~davids86/95151.jpg http://www.msu.edu/~davids86/95152.jpg) which weighs 50lbs and then theres the DD 18" Beast which weighs right around 75lbs.
    Here's some shots of the nuke: http://www.carstereoworld.com/ground...roundzero.html
    I dug this up at a forum, but this is for the 12":
    12-3-S
    Nom. Imp (ohms) - 4.0
    VC diam. (in) - 3
    Magnet Weight - 218
    SPL @ 1W/1M - 89.9
    FS (Hz) - 35.0
    Re (ohms) - 3.2
    Qts - .245
    Qes - .252
    Qms - 8.89
    Vas (liters) - 37.3
    SD (M^2) - .0452
    X-MAX (in)- .54
    Peak to Peak (in) - 2.4
    BL (Tesla x meter) - 21.2
    Le @ 1KHz (mH) - 2.7
    Power Handling - 900W
     
  4. Julian Data

    Julian Data Second Unit

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    Whoa.. I am confusing the sub with another sorry..
     
  5. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    sorry, never seen one, or heard much about them.
    TV
     
  6. Julian Data

    Julian Data Second Unit

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  7. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Josh,
    Just as an FYI, the Sunfire subwoofers' drivers are actually made by Earthquake and I wouldn't be surprised if they make all the other "similar" drivers as well.
    Brian
     
  8. Josh Davidson

    Josh Davidson Stunt Coordinator

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    I was under the impression that Carver designed the Sunfire series. I have no doubt that someone else manufactures them, since that is very common in the speaker industry.
     
  9. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Josh,
    Carver (the company) and Sunfire are two entirely different companies with no ties to one another. Sunfire was the company that Bob Carver started after he left Carver (or was forced to leave). Seeing that Carver was much more of a amplifier company, it would only make sense that when Bob Carver decided to build a sub that he would go to a driver manufacturer. While Earthquake is just coming into their own in the HT world, they've been in car audio for quite a few years.
    Brian
     
  10. Josh Davidson

    Josh Davidson Stunt Coordinator

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    I agree with everything you're saying. I'm pretty familiar with Earthquake's car audio sub/amp line and I'm pretty sure that they were in no way affiliated with GZ.
    While were on the topic of lesser known drivers, what made you guys start using the Audiomobile Mass's? I don't know much about HT performance, but as far as car audio is concerned there are several drivers that supposedly have better sound quality and have the potential of getting louder.
     
  11. TerryC

    TerryC Stunt Coordinator

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    "I don't know much about HT performance, but as far as car audio is concerned there are several drivers that supposedly have better sound quality and have the potential of getting louder."
    Well I'm sure there are many reasons but here is my guess.
    As far as measured performance by credible people it is still top dog with the current 12" drivers. Most people that I've seen talk down the Mass haven't even heard it or don't like Matt the president of Audiomobile. I read of only one case in the auto forums where a guy actually owned one and didn't like it but it was damaged in transit and I didn't see his follow up so don't know if his opinion changed? I'm sure there are some equal or better performing drivers out there but one needs to realize that in the car audio world they are usually many times the Mass's price.
    Also car audio drivers are usually expensive and full of [email protected] specs so it makes buying them extremely risky IMHO and there is a certain peace of mind buying a driver that has received all the rave review/measurements that the Mass has.
    BTW-the mass also models extremely well for home theater in a medium sized box that allows long enough ports to tune it right. A lot of car drivers model for extremely small boxes and roll of super early.
    Terry
     
  12. Josh Davidson

    Josh Davidson Stunt Coordinator

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    I definately agree that many manf. give a little bit of hyped up specs. Just for something to chew on if you haven't seen these drivers:
    http://www.ozaudio.com/oz/oz_prod_speak4_12.shtml http://www.ddaudio.com
    There is also a driver called the Crystal CMP, which is pretty similar to the Mass, but all I could find was pics of it and this review of the Mass that mentions it:
    http://www.m-emag.com/reviews/print_...tml?reviewID=9
    The crystal cmp that is referred is now out of production and their is a new model coming out that is supposed to be quite a bit better.
    Also, the ID Max is supposed to be coming out soon. It's been rumored for release for quite some time and many people think it is going to be one of the best subs available when it comes out.
    Mainly, I'm just curious why everybody in this forum has stuck to pretty much Adire's stuff, Stryke, and Audiomobile. Not that that it is bad or anything, I'm just wondering because Audiomobiles and Strykes aren't cheap and if there is better stuff out there for similar pricing I know I'd be interested.
     
  13. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    People on the forum stick with those drivers because they perform well, they are reliable, and the companies give good product support and DIY assistance.
     
  14. TerryC

    TerryC Stunt Coordinator

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    Josh,
    Have you ever tried modeling anything using WinISD? Its a free program that let's you simulate drivers in whatever box you want.
    Couple responses about the OZ, very high FS and very small Vas. Not a good combination for a home driver IMHO. You can't get that driver to model anything even remotely good as a home theater sub. Also look at that surround does it really need that much? I highly doubt it! That surround is taking away valuable surface area that can be better used to push more air that home theaters require.
    Now to the Digital Design 9012. Try modeling that and see what you get!
    The CMP 12 changed a lot from when Tom N. measured it for some reason I forgot. It even went from an underhung design to a overhung design if I remember correctly?
    As Tom said, the Adire/Mass have been proven in testing and with many examples to perform well in a home theater sub. Just because a driver makes a great car woof does not mean it will make a good home woof. When you are spending upwards of $300-500 on a driver most don't want to experiment as they want their home built sub to surely sound good and experimenting is a 50/50 chance most won't take because you could be stuck with an expensive mistake.
    One thing you may not know. Even jumping up to the $300 mass (which would be a lot more if sold through regular distribution) which has measured the best so far(12" drivers) by Tom Nousaine from the $115 Shiva is not going to offer a big difference if you give the Shiva a little bigger enclosure than the mass. Heck even within the same enclosure the Shiva is going to hold its own VERY well against the mass.
    Nobody here is really senseless brand loyal or get too hyped about new drivers like the car audio world. Here it is mostly lets model that driver and see how it performs. If it doesn't beat a $115 driver in a similar sized box by enough of a margin and ends up costing 3 to 4 times as much you won't see many using it for obvious reasons.
    But if something does come out and it is proven to be good with measurements to back it up by either Dumax or independent testing by the types like Tom Nousaine then you will see it embraced. The typical it pounds hard, loudest I ever heard subjective comments don't go far on these forums as the people are tutored to learn more about subs and how they work by using software sims(as they say a little knowledge can go a long way) vs. the typical "put it in the box the manufacturer suggests and it will sound the best."
    Terry
     
  15. Julian Data

    Julian Data Second Unit

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    Terry,
    That was a very well thought out post, good job! [​IMG]
    Julian
     
  16. Josh Davidson

    Josh Davidson Stunt Coordinator

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    I had WinIsd on my old computer, but I found that it wasn't all that accurate. Maybe its been changed in the last couple of years. I'm reformatting my HD this weekend so maybe I'll give it another look. There is another program out there that many manufactures and some high end retailers use that is quite expensive (can't think of the name). Everytime I've constructed a box, I usually just give the manufacturer a call with what I'm looking for and get the dimensions from them. About the 9012, is a budget SPL driver designed for DB Drag so I'm not surprised it didn't look that good. A 9100/3000 series may look a little better on paper though but I'm not sure. As far as the wide rolled surround on the Oz...I have no idea why they implement it, but a lot of speaker manf. are.
    *Edit* I see that DD is undergoing a change in the 9100 series so I didn't see the specs listed. You could try the 3000 series, but that is their budget SQ line and most likely won't look as good.
     
  17. John E Janowitz

    John E Janowitz Second Unit

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    Well, to clear up a few things, Earthquake does not make the drivers for the Sunfire. They are made by TC. Also there are two different Ground Zero companies. The US ground Zero were the drivers seen in the first links posted here, and are also made by TC.
    The other Ground Zero that most may be familiar with is the Magma company. http://www.magma-audio.de/english/gz_index.htm
    John
     
  18. Josh Davidson

    Josh Davidson Stunt Coordinator

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    Oh, I had no idea the HE15s were only 375, I figured they were a lot more than that? How come nobody is putting them in sonotubes?
     
  19. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    John,
    Thanks for the clarification. Is it possible that TC also makes the Earthquake drivers or are they totally different? I do like the look of the Earthquake PR's!
    Josh,
    It's my understanding that the HE15's are not meant for horizontal mounting (with the driver firing up or down). Plus there'd be no place to mount the PR's since they cannot be mounted horizontally either.
    Brian
     
  20. Josh Davidson

    Josh Davidson Stunt Coordinator

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    Why do the HE15s need passive radiators anyway?
    Just Dl'd a newer version of WinISD. Did they take off the option to change from metric to standard?
     

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