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Help with skin shifting problem while watching DVD's (1 Viewer)

Andrew Beacom

Supporting Actor
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Jan 11, 2001
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792
Skin shifting is the best way I can use to describe what I have seen. The DVD's that I noticed it on were all rentals, Remember The Titans, The Green Mile and Save the Last Dance.
It is most noticeable when watching african american actors like Denzel Washington. It almost seems like an after image and it looks like the actors skin isn't moving at the same ratio as their head.
At first I wondered if it was watching the movies in the dark after calibrating my TV with natural light. But that theory was shot when my wife saw it on Save the Last Dance viewed during the day.
I think that it is an issue with my TV's contrast and brightness controls. I calibrated with VE but the fact that it's mainly african american actors in dark scene's where light and shadow's around/on the face suggests this.
The other possabilities that occur to me are dirt on the DVD's or my player. They were all rental's, but problems with all 3.
The player is a new RP91 connected to my 32" direct view Panasonic with a cheap RS composite cable.
Has anyone ever seen anything similar? Have I been able to explain my problem?
TIA.
 

Andrew Beacom

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jan 11, 2001
Messages
792
John,
It's not sharpness as after calibrating with VE my sharpness is at 0. But thanks for reminding me to post my other settings.
Color: 32/63
Tint: 30/63
Brightness : 38/63
Contrast: 19/63
Sharpness: 0
My set has SVM on it which I can't disable but I don't think it's at the bottom of my skin shift problem.
 

GregC

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Feb 6, 2000
Messages
136
I think this is a "feature" of the Panasonic. I saw the RP-91 at a local HT B&M hooked up to two tvs, the new Panasonic 47" and the Pioneer 710. I noticed the same issue on both. The leaves on the background trees "broke up" as the camera panned. It looked "digital", not smooth and film-like at all. Very distracting and the reason I'm waiting for a better model to come along (DCDi?).
 

Michael Reuben

Senior HTF Member
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Feb 12, 1998
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21,763
Real Name
Michael Reuben
The other possabilities that occur to me are dirt on the DVD's or my player.
Dirt causes the image to break up or the player to lock. It doesn't cause small shifts in color or image such as you're describing.
I'd switch to a better cable. And by all means, lose the composite connection and switch to S-Video or component.
M.
 

Andrew Beacom

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jan 11, 2001
Messages
792
Someone I know suggested that I might be seeing motion artifacts and switching to a component cable was the way to go.
I am looking at component cables but I was hoping to hold off until I have finished my RPTV shopping and know what distance I am working with.
Getting back to motion artifacts. Being new to DVD I am not exactly sure what one is. Can anyone give me a good description or point out a DVD that exhibits them for me to watch?
 

Michael Reuben

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I am looking at component cables but I was hoping to hold off until I have finished my RPTV shopping and know what distance I am working with.
Then may I suggest you get a single S-Video cable during the interim.
DVD is the first pre-recorded consumer video that stores chroma (color) and luminescence (black and white) separately. It's one of the many reasons why it produces a superior picture. Both S-Video and component connections preserve the separation of these elements, while composite mixes them together and then requires your TV to separate them. It's no wonder you're seeing a less-than-optimal picture.
Also, you've said you're using a "cheap" cable. Video signals are vulnerable to interference if the cables are not well shielded.
You'll find it hard to track down the cause of the problem you're describing until and unless you eliminate these known sources of picture degradation.
As for "motion artifacts", these usually result from the effects of a line doubler. Most direct view sets don't have built-in line doublers, so I doubt that's the problem here.
M.
 

DanG

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Nov 19, 2000
Messages
140
Try these as "testing" component cables before you buy the $400 pair, all three cables are 75ohms and work very well - 12 Ft. Gold-Series Audio/Video Cable With 3 RCA Plugs At Each End
$19.99 RadioShack Model: 15-1509
As for ALL kinds of DVD artifacting check here: Link Removed
 

Eugene Hsieh

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jun 30, 1997
Messages
550
I dunno if this is your problem, but I find that MPEG artifacts in dark scenes/skin can be more obvious when the TV tint is pushed toward the green side.
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Eugene Hsieh, VisorCentral FAQ Editor
1000 km on a tank of gas??? Check out the Prius and drive the future now!
 

Andrew Beacom

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jan 11, 2001
Messages
792
My TV does push Green by 5% which isn't a huge amount. I have an S-Video cable that I use for my SVHS VCR. I can swap this in for the composite cable and see if the problem still occurs.
I guess I can't point at the DVD player until I have ruled out the cable as being the problem. The cable is the weakest link in the chain at the moment.
It looks like I will need a 9ft component cable so I'll do something there soon. I really need to be watching in progressive mode to be able to judge the player and the shifting.
 

Andrew Beacom

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jan 11, 2001
Messages
792
Dan,
I have an RS A/V cable that would work but it isn't one of the gold series. Would it be worth hooking it up as a component cable for a quick test? I'm assuming that even though it might give me a piss poor picture it shouldn't damage anything.
 

DanG

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Nov 19, 2000
Messages
140
Sorry for the late reply Andrew. The reason I mentioned the Gold series one, is that all three cables are 75 ohms which is necessary for it to act as a component cable.
If you can ascertain that the one you have is 75ohms than use it.
The other thing that comes to mind is something called dot crawl which I think is caused by too much edge enhancement. Try taking your Remember the Titans (great flick-awesome music), make sure its clean, and go into the User mode and see if you can increase the U2 settings (noise reduction) to their highest settings and the U3 sharpness settings to their lowest values.
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Panasonic Hi&Lo Def WebPage
 

Doug_B

Screenwriter
Joined
Feb 11, 2001
Messages
1,081
It looks like I will need a 9ft component cable so I'll do something there soon. I really need to be watching in progressive mode to be able to judge the player and the shifting.
Andrew,
Take the advice of some of the other folks and change the video cable. Try your S-Video cable, try component cables, anything else. Don't bother buying a long run now or anything expensive, just get something short and temporarily move the player next to the TV for testing purposes. If the problem goes away, you know where to focus your attention.
Doug
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"Today is a good day to die." ...Old Lodge Skins
 

Andrew Beacom

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jan 11, 2001
Messages
792
I'm planning on switching to the S-Video cable tonight. I actually notice the problem on several DVD's now I know what to look for.
I haven't noticed it on animation/cartoon movies though.
 

Andrew Beacom

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jan 11, 2001
Messages
792
I swapped the S-video cable and watched a few movies and thought it looked much better. The cable I was using got swapped to my VCR and I can now see the skin shift problem on regular cable. It would appear that the cable is the culprit.
What is interesting is that this composite cable was plugged into my VCR before I got the S-Video cable after joining this forum. When I put the S-Video cable in I didn't notice a huge difference but I left it in for the minor improvements I could detect. I now can't believe I watched TV like this at all.
Either my eye has got better at detecting problems or with the addition of new equipment into my system there is some interference that wasn't present when I last used this cable.
I never realised that interference showed up as a ghosting effect. I always thought interference was a signal related thing that led to picture noise (snow) or lines etc.
If I need to change from S-Video back to composite on my VCR to use my new TV's line doubler a good quality (shielded) composite cable is obviously in order.
 

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