Help with Receiver/Speaker combination

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Dereck Graefer, Oct 13, 2002.

  1. Dereck Graefer

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    Hello Everyone!
    This is my first post here, and I am wondering if someone can help me out with some suggestions, info, etc.
    I recently purchased a set of JBL S310II towers connected to a Denon 1602(70w x 5) receiver. Right now I just have the Front towers. Everything sounded good when I initially set them up. I found that having the volume on the receiver set to 00 was about as loud as I want to listen to music. (The receivers volume goes from -60 to 00 to 18). Im only about a meter away from both speakers so the volume at about 06 hurts my ears. Now, the other day I was listening to some classical music and I noticed that the tweeter in the left tower was spitting out a fuzzy noise type distortion when playing high notes. I turned the receivers volume down to about -30 and the noise was audible if I moved closer to the speaker. I played some different music genres, and the distortion was present, but not as pronounced as with the classical. The mid and sub sounded fine. What I found odd was that the right tower was playing clear as day - at any volume level. I swapped the channels for the speakers, and the noise still came out of the left speaker, even though it was connected to the right channel. So, Either the tweeter was damaged when I bought the speakers, or I damaged the tweeter myself. Could my receiver have been clipping and damaged the tweeter? How probable is it for a receiver like mine, to clip on the speakers when volume is at 00? I was told by the salesperson that this receiver was powerful enough and would work well, but now im not too sure about that. I'm going to return the speaker at some point, but want a few questions answered first. Do you think I need a higher powered receiver? Or do you think my receiver is fine and I just need to replace a defective speaker? Any suggestions/comments/hints/etc. Also, if it is the case that I need a new receiver, suggestions for a new one would be appreciated. Something in the $400 CDN range would be optimal. I am planning to get a full HT setup as time goes on, so that should be considered with everyones suggestions.
    - Thanks
     
  2. ColinM

    ColinM Cinematographer

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    Sounds as if your reciever may have clipped and fried a tweeter.

    More power may have prevented that.

    Do you use the tone controls?
     
  3. Dereck Graefer

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    At first I was using Tone Controls. I had the bass set to +2dB but now I have both Treble and Bass set to 00dB.
     
  4. Dereck Graefer

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    I have been looking at some higher power rated receivers, and have found them to be too expensive for me right now. For example, the Denon 5000. www.denon.ca lists the 5000 at $5800 Canadian, which I can't afford at this time. So, I believe my solution may be to upgrade to an entry receiver with pre-amps, and then buy a external amp for my JBL's. For a receiver, I was thinking of moving to a Denon 2803, since it has pre-amp outputs. But im unsure of what kind of amp I need. I'm planning to add S-38II for rears, and a S-Center-II in the future. Would I be Ok with just getting a 2 channel amp for the JBL fronts, and then running the rest of the components from the 2803? The S38II and the S-Center-II are rated for max input power of 175 watts and 150 watts, respectfully. The Denon 2803 is 90w x 6. Would I be running the same risk of clipping with the surrounds and Center running off the 2803? Should I get a 5 channel amp instead of 2 channel? I don't know much about standalone amps. I'm unsure of which brands are the best performance/price. To be on the safe side, I was thinking that a 200w x 2 amp would be good for the S310II's. Is such a thing expensive? And if anyone thinks I need a 5 channel amp, how much should I expect to pay? This is all in Canadian funds, and I'm willing to spend 1000 - 1200 Canadian for a receiver + amp. If I return my Denon 1602, I can get $400 Canadian back and hopefully only have to add $600 to get a new power solution. So in short, I just want to know what kind of power I need to be absolutely sure I won't wreck anything. Im open to anyone's opinion on a power solution for my speakers. Thanks.
     
  5. BrianT

    BrianT Auditioning

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    Dereck,

    If you determine clipping was the cause of the problem then an upgrade of your amplification can not hurt. You really have quite a few options to consider.

    First, a separate amplifier will not necessarily solve your problem. The more respected manufacturers, like Denon, make some high quality receivers that perform better dollar for dollar than similarly priced separates. Now don’t get me wrong if you want to spend the money, and maybe even at the price of the flagship models of most manufacturers, you can get separates that will out perform the best receivers. But for purchases under the price of the top-of-the line receiver I would stick with a receiver instead of getting external power.

    However, that being said, for the budget you mentioned you should look at the used market. You can get a 1-2 year old model of a higher end receiver for the same price as getting the 2803 and an external amp. The other possibility is to get a used receiver with pre-outs and a used external amp. Amp technology doesn’t change that rapidly and remember that just because an amplifier is considered a separate does not mean it is necessarily better. A good new two channel amp is going to cost some money. Also, you will find the more channels you go after the higher the price for a good amp.

    I know that is a lot of different possibilities but it gives you some options to consider that you may not have thought about.
     
  6. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    The advice Brian has given looks pretty spot on.
    1) Just get a higher model receiver in your price range.
    2) Look at a used, higher model receiver with more power.
    3) New lower receiver with a used amp.
    If you aren't planning on 6.1/7.1 right now, then I would definitely look at a 1-2 year old receiver. A 4801 might do the trick.
    I think your problem stems entierly from the 1602's lack of power with a larger speaker. A 3802 or 3803 would be better, and can likely handle everything without external amplification. Even a 2802/2803 might work, with or without external amps.
    Max power input is almost irrelevant on a speaker, since most integrated receivers cannot deliver that much power.
    Another solution would be to set your towers to small, and use an external sub, if you are not. This will free up some headroom for the receiver and allow it to manage a bit better.
    Check out www.audiogon.com to get a feel for amp pricing.
     
  7. Dereck Graefer

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    Thanks guys for the info.

    Well, I think im sold on the new/used lower receiver + used amp Idea as you pointed out John. I think it would work out cheaper than a good used/new receiver.

    Since I would be using the receiver as if it was a processor, I can find something with pre outs and a not so high power rating. If I bought new for a receiver, I think a Yamaha RX-V630 or Marantz SR4200. What do you guys think? Any other good brands I should demo?

    My 1602 is brand new, so I can likely exchange it with some extra currency to get one of the models mentioned beforehand. As for an amp .... I just have to keep my eyes open I guess. If im going to get a lower model Receiver, I think a 5 channel amp would be what I want.

    But who knows, I might be able to find a sweet used receiver. Like a Denon 380x or higher. I guess I still have a lot to decide ... but you guys pointed me in the right direction. My search begins .....
     
  8. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    I don't think the 4200 has pre-outs, but I may be wrong. I know for sure the 5200 and up do, and the 5200 would be a very good candidate, IMO. I'd even recommend an SR5000, for 5.1 only.
     
  9. Dereck Graefer

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    I was looking at the specs at Marantz. They don't mention the pre outs on the outline specs, just in the detailed specs. If you look under "other" it says:

    Pre- Amplifier Out 5.1 Channels

    The 5200 looks nice too. I think I've changed my mind on the amp + receiver idea though. After looking around, I have found that buying a good amp and a good receiver, is out of my reach financally. Even at used prices.

    It seems that the Denon 3801 - 3802 can be had for around $500 - $700 U.S.(which is about $800 - $1100 canadian, and within my budget). I like the sound of my 1602, and think Denon makes some good stuff. Also, I can demo a local shops Denon 3802 to make sure I like them before I buy a used one. This solution will be cheaper I think. And if I ever want to add an amp in the future, I always can. The help has been appreciated.
     

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