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HELP! Should picture in Avia have flashing lines with Prog Scan?

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by Jason Pugh, Mar 20, 2003.

  1. Jason Pugh

    Jason Pugh Agent

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    I just got the new Pansonic DVD S35 because I've heard great things about it, I like that it plays jpegs, and it is only $99. I get it home and pop in the Avia DVD and notice that the lines are jumping everywhere during the contrast test. I actually notice even the menu at the beginning being a little jumpy. Anyway, I switch it to interlaced mode and it looks perfect. I've checked out several other regular DVDs and they look simply awesome in prog scan mode (IMO) but what gives with this shimmer/flicker during the Avia test? ANY advice whatsoever would be appreciated. Sorry if this has been answered a million times before. I just want to know if this is a true problem or something that often happens in prog scan with the Avia. Basically I want to know if I should be packing up a DVD player to take it back or not?
    Oh yeah, I'm running it to a Pioneer Elite 610 using component cables from Better Cables.

    Jason
     
  2. Neil Joseph

    Neil Joseph Lead Actor

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    Hmm, it is usually the other way around. During the pulse neeldes test for instance, there is visible shimmer in interlace mode that clears up in progressive mode. The same thing is visible when looking closely at subtitles. I have tried the test on 2 different players so far... Panny CP67 and JVC 500.
     
  3. Jason Pugh

    Jason Pugh Agent

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    So, do you think that I should take this DVD player back and get another one? Anyone else have any input?
     
  4. Jason Pugh

    Jason Pugh Agent

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    Now, I know there are a ton of AVIA gurus out there. [​IMG] I tried several more DVDs and I found Stargate SE to be pretty bad but it has a shimmering problem anyway and really has one of the most unstable images I've seen. It seemed that the Prog Scan made some things a tad worse (subtitles for example) but other things were noticably better like detail on a shiny medallion that had intricate lines engraved in it. I'm torn. I really don't mind spending the extra bucks IF (big IF) there is a player that justifies it. Since I have a 58" Elite I rule out all players with the Chroma bug. I've spotted it and now I can see it a mile away.
    I'm still wondering if it has something weird to do with the Avia DVD?
     
  5. ManW_TheUncool

    ManW_TheUncool Producer

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    Try some video-sourced DVDs or some featurettes/documentaries on movie DVDs. Maybe the new all-in-one chip used in these new Panny's aren't very good w/ video-based deinterlacing. Might not be all that good w/ bad edits and bad flags either like many other deinterlacers not made by SI and Faroudja.

    Btw, I recently saw another report on a similar issue w/ AVIA on that player elsewhere. It's a very new player, so more reports of this will probably trickle in.

    Sounds like we need the folks at the Secret's Shootout to take a look at the new Panny's w/ the new all-in-one chip. [​IMG]

    _Man_
     
  6. Jason Pugh

    Jason Pugh Agent

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    Yeah, I wish someone would put this thing under a microscope. [​IMG] I am really considering taking it back but I'm not sure what I will get. Most of the older players that are in the top line are gone and I'm not so sure the other newer ones will be any different from the one I got. I have found the DVD S30 but I'm not sure if it is the way to go. I like that this one does jpg images but 95% of my viewing will be with regular movie DVDs.
    I did notice on a couple of movies with small lettering in the intro having some flicker but others where it was rock solid. I'm confused when it comes to all of this bad edit flags and stuff. [​IMG]
     
  7. Jason Pugh

    Jason Pugh Agent

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    Ok, after even more watching I've found that the problems are during STILL screens such as the menu or the sharpness test in Avia. As soon as the film starts rolling everything looks crystal. It won't let you switch from progressive to interlaced during Menu screens so I had to start the movie, switch it and then go back to the main menu screen. Sure enough when it was on interlaced the menu looked perfect. So, now I'm wondering just how big of a deal this is and if I take back the S35 what model I should try to get. Any other advice on this issue?
     
  8. Neil Joseph

    Neil Joseph Lead Actor

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    What happens on video based material? I am thinking along the lines like do you see shimmering on stuff like the seats in a stadium (lots of parallel lines close together) or on the tweed checkered jacket of Bill Harding's (Bill Paxton's character) in Twister. Do you see shimmering in situations like this?
     
  9. Jason Pugh

    Jason Pugh Agent

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    Nope, that is what I was saying about Stargate:SE in that many pictures with fine lines in the actual movie are noticably better than when looked at in interlaced mode. The best example I can give is the medallion that someone was holding. It had many fine intricate lines. With interlaced mode it had a shimmer to it but progressive mode eliminated a huge part of it. The lines were very stable even as the camera panned away from the medallion. Other movies I've watched seem to be the same in that the only time that the problem shows up are on perfectly still screens and many times it is ok there as well. I have 30 days to return this one so I'm hoping to get some more advice before then. I certainly appreciate your help. [​IMG]
     
  10. Jason Pugh

    Jason Pugh Agent

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    Ok, I think maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are asking about. You mentioned the movie Twister but were you actually wanting me to check something other than typical movies? I'm just making sure I know what you are calling video and what you are calling film, etc. Sorry for the newbie question.
     
  11. Grant H

    Grant H Cinematographer

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    You might want to check your contrast settings just to be on the safe side. On my player (a totally different model), I thought I was getting shimmering in Progessive mode on titles for a while, but after I turned down the contrast (white level) it disappeared. Apparently since titles and subtitles can be really bright sometimes they were actually blooming.(not good)

    It's worth a shot. Just remember what you had your contrast set at before in case it doesn't help at all. If it does help, you'll probably have to readjust your other video settings with your new white level.
     
  12. ManW_TheUncool

    ManW_TheUncool Producer

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    Neil's question about video-based DVDs is referring to DVDs made for video (not film) sources, eg. many TV shows, typical documentaries/featurettes, etc. Such content are more likely to reveal flaws in a player's deinterlacing.

    His question about Twister and such is different.

    _Man_
     
  13. Jason Pugh

    Jason Pugh Agent

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    Thanks for explaining that for me Man. I thought I was missing something. [​IMG]

    Grant,
    I'm pretty sure it isn't that. I made an adjustment to the contrast before I did the test for the sharpness. Plus if you saw just how bad these lines were moving then you would know that the contrast would have to be up as high as it would go and everything else messed up too. The lines on the needle test (as you guys call it I think) were jumping all over the place. I'm talking about lines bending out of place up to say a quarter of an inch on my 58" Elite.

    Lastly, I think I'm just going to take this player back or give it to a relative. I just ordered a Denon 1600 for a great price and will be removing this one when that one arrives. Now I just hope I have good luck with the Denon. I started to go with the Denon 3800 but I didn't want to mess with questioning an online dealer about the serial # (for the fixed chroma bug and bad laser). Plus, I figure if I'm going to spend that much then I'll just wait to see next crop or the one after that to see what these new machines add to the mix. I knew I wanted to get something with the DCDi Faroudja chip and was worried about the quality of some of the new models (especially Panasonic). Anyway, thanks for the help.
     

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