Help! Please explain DVD-R/DVD-RW/DVD+RW/DVDRAM, etc. (1 Viewer)

[NickSo]

Okay, i am fairly knowledgeable in terms of new technology and stuff, but this just confuses me... I read some simple explanatnions, but i still dont get it.

What are the specs/siilarities/differences in each kind of recordable/rewriteable DVD format?

THanks

 

[Will_B]

All you need to know is to avoid everything except DVD+RW -- look for the plus sign.

And watch for coverage of the January 8 - 12 consumer electronics show (some kind of trade show, don't know the details) at which all the DVD recordable players and movers and shakers will be showing off their wares.

 

[David Lambert]

NickSo: I recommend that you head straight over to the appropriate section of Jim Taylor's DVD FAQ for a decent explanation of the different formats of Recordable DVD.
Will_B: I tuned into this thread to see if I could learn anything new, and I saw your reply:

 

[TyC]

David: You beat me to it.

 

[Will_B]

Hi. I was convinced of DVD+RW by some guy with the username of "headphasechanger" who frequents Yahoo's stock market bulletin boards - specifically the SNIC section --
visit http://messages.yahoo.com/?action=q&board=SNIC
for his remarks over the months. There's no easy way to search so just scroll through it.
Besides being intimate with the technology (he is, I believe 60 years old now and has been in on the technical side for decades) he also has incredible vision about what is going on right now as far as what technologies are really being lined up by the big computer makers to succede, and which are just sort of saving face.
I can't really explain all he explained, though compatibility was obviously a bit asset for DVD+RW - and I don't mean "I can't explain" as a cop-out, I really mean it was over my head or beyond my memory capabilities. But I trust him.
While you're there you _may_ want to consider checking out the stock, too (SNIC is a software solution for authoring, which Adobe recently licensed the guts of for their soup-to-nuts DVD producing solution which they are inventing as we speak, and, Dell will be announcing they're using SNIC at the CES show too. The stock already lept up recently though so it may be too late for dramatic gains). ;-)

 

[Will_B]

I should mention that all of headphasechanger's messages about DVD technology don't effect the stock SNIC one way or the other (it doesn't matter to SNIC which format wins).

 

[Will_B]

While searching thru his posts, I found this slightly out of date post from someone else that may be of interest:

-- Dell -- Dell will ship DVD+RW drives later this year in Dell Dimension desktops and Dell Precision workstations, providing both consumer and professional users the ability to record and playback their digital media.

-- HP DVD-Writer dvd100i -- HP is now shipping the HP DVD-Writer dvd100i, a super combination drive that allows consumers to create custom CDs and DVDs using one drive. Additionally, HP will begin shipping the first DVD+RW drive in a pre-configured PC, the new HP Pavilion 9995 home PC, on Nov. 18. The drive is also available now through HP's build-to-order program. HP DVD+RW discs are also available in retails stores with 4.7GB storage capacity.

-- Philips DVDRW208 DVD+RW PC drive -- Philips has started shipment of its DVDRW208 DVD+RW PC drive, a combination drive that is optimized for both video and data storage, allowing customers to read and write CDs and DVDs. In addition, Philips already introduced DVD+RW 4.7GB discs and its award-winning DVDR1000 DVD+RW video recorder, a device that makes it easy for consumers to create digital-quality video recordings in the living room. It includes a time-shift recorder for TV programs and is an ideal solution for those who want to enjoy and preserve their own movies on a reliable and user-friendly platform.

-- Ricoh MP5120A -- Ricoh is shipping the Ricoh MP5120A, PC drive, which has DVD+RW and CD-R/CD-RW writing capability. Additionally, Ricoh 4.7GB DVD+RW discs are shipping for use with video and data storage.

-- Sony Corporation -- Also showing its support for the DVD+RW format, Sony today introduced a combination DVD+RW/CD-RW internal drive (model DRU110A/C1) that can be easily installed inside a desktop PC, and 4.7GB DVD+RW disc media (DPW47) optimized for both video/audio and data storage applications. The new Sony drive and media will be available this month through nationwide retailers, mail order catalogs and select online shopping sites including SonyStyle.com.

-- Verbatim DVD+RW -- Verbatim Corporation is selling 4.7GB DVD+RW discs around the world for the PC and consumer electronics markets.

-- Yamaha Corporation -- Yamaha Corporation announced that it will release a DVD+RW CE recorder in 2002.

 

[NickSo]

So basically, they're all different types of 'media', but use the DVD technology???

So DVD-RW functions the same as DVD+RW except the are not the same format???

 

[David Lambert]

So DVD-RW functions the same as DVD+RW except the are not the same format???

EXACTLY, NickSo!
Think of it like 3½" computer disks: The Mac version won't work in your Windows/IBM-compatible computer. The disk fits in the drive, but the format is different and cannot be read.
The thing is, DVD-RW is not universally accepted...at least not yet. The info Will_B is giving you seems to indicate that it's leaning in that direction.
But the format hasn't won all the marbles yet:

• Panasonic has a new Recordable DVD unit in stores like Best Buy...it's doing decently well. It's DVD-RAM.
• Apple's notebook computers, highly regarded in the laptop industry as a leading in "DVD-Burning" appeal, are using the DVD-RAM format as well, even though competitors like Dell (mentioned by Will_B), IBM, and Toshiba are using DVD-RW instead. I should know about the latter 3; I work at the North American repair depot that services those OEM's!
• The stock market is definately in a state of flux at this time. In no way would I recommend looking at the value of any stock - no matter how well it's doing - as a "tip-off" that one format or another is "winning the format war".

Personally, I am holding off until the smoke clears and there is a definate winner. Can you say "BetaMax"?

 

[Bryant Frazer]

A few points.

Panasonic's set-top DVD-RAM recorder supports burning to DVD-R as well as DVD-RAM. This is important because very few set-top players and DVD-ROM drives can read DVD-RAM discs, but many of them can read DVD-R.

I don't know what's up with Apple's Powerbooks, but the desktop G4 computers that run Final Cut Pro and DVD Studio Pro all use Pioneer's DVD-R drive, not Panasonic's DVD-RAM drive. (Apple supported DVD-RAM early on but has pretty much shifted completely to DVD-R.)

Finally, anecdotal evidence with which I'm familiar suggests that DVD+RW does not, in fact, have a significant compatibility advantage over DVD-RW. I've never actually used a DVD+RW drive, however. (I've played with Pioneer's set-top DVD-R/RW recorder, and I think it's nifty.)

-bf-

 

[David Lambert]

Bryant, thank you. Those salient points you made were the type of hard info I was tuning into this thread looking for. New info that I wasn't up on!

Anyone/anything else?

 

[Steve Tannehill]

I have a PowerMac G4 with Superdrive. Yes, it uses DVD-R, and the resulting discs can play on set-top DVD players. And you don't have to spend $2000 to get Final Cut and DVD Studio Pro...the Mac comes bundled with iMovie and iDVD, which is perfect for home video use.
And the DVD-R media is currently $6 a pop...not bad for 4.7 gigs of storage.
- Steve

 

[Bryant Frazer]

And the DVD-R media is currently $6 a pop...not bad for 4.7 gigs of storage.

Steve, how's your luck been with the Apple media? I bought a five-pack and one of them wound up being a coaster. I was trucking along, recording video on the Pioneer deck, when suddenly recording just stopped and a message reading "Cannot record information to disc" popped onto the TV screen. I couldn't record any more video or finalize the disc. The stuff I had already recorded would play back on the DVD-R deck -- but because it hadn't been finalized, none of the four other DVD players in my house could read the disc. Bleah.

-bf-

 

[Steve Tannehill]

So far, I've made one or two coasters under Mac OS 9.2. The burning and prep process was sensitive to file sharing, sleep, and so on. Once I disabled those, burning worked. Also, once iDVD came out for Mac OS X, I've had no problems at all. I like how it encodes on-the-fly in the background, thus saving a lot of the time encountered in the 9.x version.

- Steve

 

[Scooter]

For the record..I saw HDTV..1180..at CES in 1984. Hitachi had a display using NTSC and HDTV side by side..I was, to say the least, floored!!!!!

 

[Will_B]

An AP story that ran in the Boston Globe (and I assume other papers) today was a comparison between DVD-RW and the newer DVD+RW format. I've bolded the important part, where DVD+RW scores the win.
Stand-alone DVD recorders limited
By Frank Bajak, Associated Press, 12/27/2001
NEW YORK - You probably already know that the DVD is destined to run videotapes and compact discs off the planet.
The DVD far eclipses videotape for movies and shames the compact disc for music. In data storage, at 4.7 gigabytes it beats a rewriteable CD about sevenfold.
There's really no need anymore for CD-ROM drives in computers, as DVD-ROM drives, which cost less than $100, can read all CD-ROMs and standard audio CDs.
It will still be at least a year, though, before DVD recorders become standard in home computers. That's because of a nasty format war among consumer electronics companies, much like the one that eventually saw VHS win over Betamax in the world of videotapes.
Home moviemakers are already buying DVD burners (about $500) for their computers. A stand-alone DVD recorder is another option in the meantime.
Though I can't make a reasonable case for actually buying a stand-alone DVD recorder, it's fun to get a glimpse of the future, and several consumer electronics giants have already obliged.
The gleaming silver metallic machines I examined are considerably more than glorified VCRs in function. But they also suffer huge limitations by virtue of being enclosed boxes without hard drives and controllable only via keyboardless remotes.
We stacked Pioneer's DVR-7000 and Philips's DVDR1000 (both about $1,800) against - and literally on top of - each other. We hooked them up to an AV tuner, a TV, and speakers and put them to work. We didn't look at a cheaper unit by Panasonic that supports the rival DVD-RAM format.
Our first job was recording a two-hour movie to a rewriteable DVD-RW disc on the Pioneer: Initialize the disc, which takes only a few seconds; find the movie's channel and start time; set the timer.
We had little patience for programming the DVD recorder. Personal video recorders like TiVo and ReplayTV have built-in program guides that are updated by telephone or Internet connections and make recording a cinch. Shouldn't DVD recorders have that feature?
On standard recording, the two-hour movie filled a single DVD-RW. Then you must ''finalize'' the disc, a process that took eight minutes. (A single DVD-RW disc could record up to six hours but such discs wouldn't work in most DVD players.)
The Philips machine, which supports the competing DVD+RW format, doesn't require initializing and finalizing discs. It was far easier to handle - and can record up to four hours of programming.
Playing the movie ''The Lost Battalion'' was a pleasure. I could skip forward in 30-second increments through the commercials, and the video and audio quality (Dolby digital) was top-notch.
That's about where it stops if recording television is your goal.
If it's burning home movies onto DVDs you want, these two machines will comply. But it's not an elegant solution.
I connected a Digital 8 camcorder to the Philips recorder and burned a six-minute performance of my son's rock band onto a DVD+RW.
Both machines have FireWire high-speed links so you can connect digital video cameras.
They are also both relatively smart, allowing you to enter names for the ''titles,'' or video segments, you record. You can also change the sequence of segments when using rewriteable DVDs. Typing in title names using an on-screen alphabet ''keypad'' and a remote is a little slow and awkward.
And, as you'd expect, the systems aren't really compatible.
The rewriteable DVD-RW recorded on the Pioneer wouldn't play on the Philips or in my Sony desktop computer's DVD-ROM drive running InterVideo's WinDVD decoder software. The DVD+RW recorded on the Philips drive, by contrast, played on all three.
Thankfully, this wasn't a problem for write-once DVD-Rs.
DVD-R discs work in about 90 percent of existing drives and players, while DVD-RW and DVD+RW discs work in around 70 percent, according to Jim Taylor, author of ''DVD Demystified.''
But you can't use a DVD-R (about $10 each) more than once, whereas the rewritable DVDs cost only about $5 more per disc and can be rewritten hundreds of times.
It was fun copying that recording of my son's rock band from the Philips to a DVD-R in the Pioneer and shipping it off to the drummer's parents.
(Piraters beware: You won't be able to do that with a commercial movie on these machines because such DVDs are copy-protected.)
But when I decided to start editing video to show at a holiday family reunion I abandoned these two pricey DVD recorders and went to my computer.
I installed Adobe's Premiere and got to work capturing video scenes from my camcorder onto a 40-gigabyte hard drive. When I'm done, I'll transfer the final cut back to the videocam, take it upstairs, and burn it onto a DVD.
Of course if I had a DVD drive in my PC, there'd be no need for a stand-alone recorder.

 

[Charles Averty]

From the sentence

n standard recording, the two-hour movie filled a single DVD-RW. Then you must ''finalize'' the disc, a process that took eight minutes. (A single DVD-RW disc could record up to six hours but such discs wouldn't work in most DVD players.)

The Philips machine, which supports the competing DVD+RW format, doesn't require initializing and finalizing discs. It was far easier to handle - and can record up to four hours of programming.

I shall deduct that they have not used the philips machine up to 4 hours but instead have only seen it in the specs. (They can contact me if i read wrongly).

As far as GUI, Philips has an eye for them, i admit, although my personal taste would go to the Ugly text version Pioneer's because for all the niceties in Philips' I cannot manage to understand their icons.

Unfortunately the article does not highlight at all the differences between +RW and -RW; it just again highlists another format war. My only concern is that with Pioneer party in the war, they will not make a universal player this time round.

 

[Robert Spalding]

I have owned both DVD+R and DVD-R and find they are both equal as far as compatibility goes. The +RW and -RW versions are not as compatible except in the newest decks.

 

[Robert Spalding]

looks like it might me a moot point anyway, look at this badboy!:
http://www.forbes.com/2002/09/09/090...?partner=yahoo

 

[Peter D]

I recommend checking out vcdhelp.com - they have in-depth information about the various formats, compatability with specific players, and more.
From what I've read, dvd-r video discs are supposed to be more compatible with older players, which is why I picked up a Pioneer A04 (under $300 at compgeeks.com). The media also seems cheaper - I've picked up dvd-r's for under $2 a piece.