Help, Paradigm Ref ADP's or 20s?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by JamesDB, Mar 27, 2004.

  1. JamesDB

    JamesDB Stunt Coordinator

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    Well I swallowed hard and pulled out my credit card. Just bought the Studio 60s, CC-470, and ADP-470s for $2900.

    Truth is I have not heard the dipoles and was wondering if I made the right choice. My couch is backed to the wall and they would be placed either on the back wall above me or on the sides. Can anyone offer me some instruction, opinions or general info on what the difference will be for movies? I can change my order if need be to the 20s for surrounds. BTW, you think this is a fair price here in Los Angeles?

    James
     
  2. PaulDA

    PaulDA Cinematographer

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    If your primary emphasis is movies, the ADPs should do fine in the room you describe (mounted on the side walls). If multichannel music is a serious concern, then I would see if I could audition the 20s and ADPs at home, and decide from there. However, if wall mounting is a must, then go with the ADPs. The 20s are pretty substantial and (IMO--I auditioned them and nearly went with them) wall mounting would be something I wouldn't do, again IMO. Either way, you've got a fine set of speakers. Enjoy.
     
  3. WayneO

    WayneO Supporting Actor

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    It's a tough call because you would want to mount the ADP's a couple feet from the back wall so they can properly reflect off of it and they should be about even or a foot behind the listening position. With the 20's you can just put them on each side of the couch firing at each other but might be distracting by being so close to the seating position. Dipoles are much less distracting at closer distances since the speakers are not firing at you, one of the reasons I went from Monitor 7's to ADP's for my rears. I really like the dipoles for movies, very enveloping. With mulit-channel music they are not as good since the sound is so dispersed that the intended mix loses it's power in the rears, but it's OK to me. If you are strictly movies I'd really lean to the dipoles though and see if you can maybe move you couch up a couple feet from the back wall to put as much distance as possible between the speakers and the back wall.
     
  4. JamesDB

    JamesDB Stunt Coordinator

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    How close to the back wall can the ADPs go?

    For music I really only listen to two channel so I figured the ADPs would be better for our movies. BTW, do you all think it was a decent price I got the set for?

    James
     
  5. Bill Blank

    Bill Blank Stunt Coordinator

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    James,

    The tough part about your situation is how close your listening position is to the back wall.

    I prefer direct radiating speakers placed on the side walls firing at each other but that's usually only a good idea if you can get them up and behind the plane of your ears.

    Dipoles are intended to bounce sound and create a diffuse rear soundstage. That will be difficult if you were to place them on the back wall above your head.

    As for pricing, most Paradigm dealers seem to sell product at 10-15% off of MSRP.

    Enjoy your new speakers, I've got 100's, 20's and a CC470 on the way.

    Bill
     
  6. Robert Hoffman

    Robert Hoffman Stunt Coordinator

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    I've read the Dolby (& other sites) about positioning of rear speakers but until I pull the trigger on my new setup I won't be able to try things out on my own. In my new living situation, I too will have to wall mount my rear speakers. What I'm planning on doing is having them rear mounted, firing towards each other a couple feet above (and to the side) of the rear listening position...but obviously they can't really be behind the listening position. Do you think this setup should work? Unfortunately there is no way I'll be able to pull the couch out a couple feet (or 1 foot for that matter). Thanks,

    Rob
     
  7. BrianAe

    BrianAe Second Unit

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    I think either way, you'd want to mount the surrounds on the side walls at least a foot from the rear wall. I think the ADPs will really help given your difficult placement.
     
  8. Robert Hoffman

    Robert Hoffman Stunt Coordinator

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    Unfortunately, I've got no side walls. The couch is against the rear wall which extends nearly the full length of the apartment. One side literally has no side wall at all, and on the other side the rear wall runs into a hall way so the side wall stops around 3-4 feet before hitting the back wall (thus, a hallway). Mounting on the rear wall facing each other appears to be the only solution. Especially considering the couch really can't be pulled forward (well it could, but I don't think my roomates would like the aesthetics).
     
  9. BrianAe

    BrianAe Second Unit

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    Ah, now I understand. Sorry. I still think the ADPs are a better bet for that situation.
     
  10. PaulDA

    PaulDA Cinematographer

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    I currently have my secondary system set up in our temporary residence in Ohio. I have the chairs up against the back wall, the tv 10" away. The room has two doors, directly across one another about 13" feet apart. The tv sits in an entertainment unit 1.5 feet to the right of one door. I have a very small HKTS6 sat/sub setup. The L/R are on top of the entertainment unit, the centre on the TV (my new receiver won't fit in the shelfspace so it occupies the former centre speaker slot). I have the rears mounted on the wall behind the chairs, as far apart as I can place them (about 2 feet above ear level. One is in the corner and the other is mounted almost flush with the doorway into the kitchen. The net effect is a rectangle with three walls and an open side. Instead of having them fire directly towards the front (as I used to do), I have angled them at 45 degrees. While far from ideal, this has worked much better since I angled the rears. They are direct radiators though, and they are small, so the mounting and angling were easily accomplished. I hope this helps (and I hope you can figure out my room from my description above).

    I should point out that I would likely have mounted the right rear on the side wall and used a speaker stand for the left but I have a toddler who would have made short shrift of the tiny stand/speaker set up, so my rear wall/angle set up was the compromise position. Good luck with your set up.
     
  11. Robert Hoffman

    Robert Hoffman Stunt Coordinator

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    Have you tried firing them directly at each other across the back wall?
     
  12. PaulDA

    PaulDA Cinematographer

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    No, I haven't. That would probably improve ambience but I listen to a fair bit of multichannel music and that might not be such a good set up for that. I'll try it though, and let you know how it sounds.
     
  13. Marc H

    Marc H Second Unit

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    I prefer direct radiators too finding their bass, dynamics and detail does better justice to digital surround and multi-channel music.
    Try and let the store audition both for you so you can decide for yourself.
     
  14. Robert Hoffman

    Robert Hoffman Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks Paul. I'm curious to hear (or rather, read about)your results.
     
  15. PaulDA

    PaulDA Cinematographer

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    Robert,

    I tried the rears facing each other and the sound was more diffuse, more like dipole/bipole speakers (though not exactly). However, for music, this is not satisfactory to me. Angled from the wall roughly 30 degrees (instead of the previous 45) creates the best compromise (though they are easy enough to move--it's more a laziness thing).

    If you have no side walls, then mounting the rears as far apart as you can on the wall behind you and facing them to each other will likely yield the most diffuse pattern you can achieve (though it may look "unorthodox"). Good luck.
     
  16. Greg_R

    Greg_R Screenwriter

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    Your couch is optimally placed for the worst possible acoustics. You want to minimize / eliminate rear wall reflections. By sitting right in front of the rear wall, you are maximizing the audibility of the rear wave.

    As for the ADPs, I ended up with them in my Studio Ref. system and wish that I went with the 20s instead. True, the ADPs offer a more diffuse soundfield (good for rain, etc.). However, for direct effects (footsteps behind you, multi-channel audio, etc.) I feel that the 20s would have been a better option.
     
  17. Robert Hoffman

    Robert Hoffman Stunt Coordinator

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    Greg: Ha ha, if only my future three other roomates shared my concern for the best acoustics. BTW, they are presently using a Bose Acoustimass system....

    Paul, thanks for the follow-up. For music, I think I'll probably be using just 2-channel primarily. Given the room setup, I'm not going to get a 5.1 system for music at this point. In addition, I haven't heard of too many SACD rap albums, and loud rap music will probably occupy 75% of the stereo's usage. For movies, I guess I'll plan on firing the rears towards each other against the back wall. Not ideal, but hopefully not too bad.
     
  18. PaulDA

    PaulDA Cinematographer

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    If that's the case, then two channel should be fine for music. Although I'm not a fan of rap, I have a musician friend who tries to get me into it from time to time. I've heard the occasional piece that was okay (to me--to each his/her own). He and I share a passion for good music gear, though he's still a dedicated two-channel guy for now. I think even the artists would agree that rap mixes (along with a lot of the classic rock and pop I listen to) don't place as high a priority on detailing, imaging and soundstaging as perhaps, say, classical or jazz (not denigrating any musical genre, just going by what my ears have told me through decent equipment and set ups). Remember that once you've set everything up, you can sit back and enjoy.[​IMG]
     

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