Help newbie: Best Plasma screen (1 Viewer)

[Yumbo]

hi,

I am thinking of buying a Fujitsu 50" model (unsure of #) this week (US$8900) - could someone please give me the lowdown (pros and cons) on it if you have some time?

thanks

 

[Lew Crippen]

Chris,

I think that you will have better luck, if you start a new thread with your request for information.

 

[Gil Velez]

Panny is the move. Best plasma. Sorry Pioneer!
Ya lost this round.
Gil

 

[ScottA]

Rich H is absolutely correct. There is no difference in picture quality between the Pioneer 503CMX and the Elite Pro-1000. They are the same display except for the frame and a few connections. Since you can buy the 503 from several reputable online dealers (including Dell computer) for between $5800-$6500 it is hard to beat. Also the expansion slot allows for future technology upgrades. There are already a few new cards soon to be released (Aurora Multimedia and Key Digital) with tuners, better scaling abilities, DVI, HDCP will be supported, etc.

I also was fortunate enough to be able to view the Pioneer (albeit the 5030 with slightly inferior scaler) next to the Panasonic. In my opinion, there was no comparison, the Panasonic was way too soft for my taste. The Pioneer was much more three dimensional. I guess it's just a matter of personal preference. Some people like a softer picture than others. But I can tell you there was no grain nor artifacts in the Pioneer I saw. Both units were playing the same DVD (recent Star Wars release) from the same source.

In my opinion the top three 50" plasmas, in order, are:
1) Fujitsu 5004
2) Pioneer 503CMX / Elite Pro-1000
3) Panasonic

Admittedly many people would call #2 & #3 a toss-up or switch them around. But the price and expansion slot tip the scales in favor of the Pioneer for me. I have one on order.

 

[Gil Velez]

http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/p...vshootout.html
Says it all. Older models, but this is the consensus all around even for newer ones.
Gil

 

[ScottA]

No offense intended to anyone here. Seriously. IMHO I don't think you can look to any one review and declare their pick the winner. I think you need to read all the reviews you can find, read the forums such as this, as well as the other one mentioned earlier in this thread, and narrow it down to two or three displays. Once you've done that go out and see for yourself. You can't go wrong with any of the displays mentioned here. You just have pick the one that suites you the most. If it were as clear-cut as others would have you believe, this discussion would have been over after the first response.
Scott

 

[Gil Velez]

True. No offense intended here either.

Gil

 

[EricHaas]

That particular critic is not held in high esteem among many plasma enthusiasts. There are often technical inaccuracies in his reviews, though admittedly this doesn't mean his opinion of PQ is invalid. Then again, any one guy's opion of PQ is about as good as the next.

My own opinion is that the Panasonic has somewhat better overall PQ than the Pioneer. I prefer the color vibrancy on the Pioneer and the black levels of the Panasonic. But the better internal scaler on the Panasonic gives it the edge. There are just fewer noisy motion artifacts. But I'd buy the Pioneer if I were to purchase right now because of price and upgradeability.

The Fujitsu, Pioneer and Panasonic are all fine displays.

 

[ScottA]

I do agree the consensus is that the Panasonic has a better internal scaler and black levels. However, I am hoping that the soon to be released video cards for the Pioneer will allow for an improvement in scaling.

Scott

 

[Jim FC]

With all due respect, I have seen the Elite and the standard-line Pioneer plasmas side-by-side, with all adjustments as close as I can get 'em, and the Elite looks noticeably better... better black level, better color, better detail. Just because they use the same glass doesn't make them the same TV, any more than Sony using the same tubes in the different Wegas means that the XBR is the same as the S-series. This is the problem with trusting these forums, spec sheets, and the like - you need to trust your own eyes more than anything (assuming you know what to look for, that is).

The new Mitsubishi 50" gives the Pioneers and the Panasonics a run for their money.

 

[ScottA]

Jim,

We are not comparing the Elite with the standard line Pioneer(5030HD).We are talking about the commercial version Pioneer 503CMX. You are correct in that the 5030HD is different. While it does have the same exact glass as the Elite/503CMX, it does have the external tuner but lacks the expansion slot. Most people agree that something in the external control box degrades the picture somewhat.

After researching this topic, something I suggest you do before criticizing others input, I e-mailed Pioneer at their customer support and asked them if their was any difference in picture quality between the Elite and the 503CMX. Guess what they said? The only difference is the frame and the fact that the Elite comes with the video card built in. With the 503CMX you have to buy the optional 5002 video card(@$300) and install it yourself. I honestly don't recall if he said the inputs were any different or not. But it was clear that the glass and all electronics, as well as PQ, are the same.

I also had this confirmed a few days later by a major AV store owner (who wanted to sell me an Elite). I told him I had heard that the 503CMX(with 5002 card) had the same picture quality as the Elite. He was honest enough to admit that he had just been at a meeting of Pioneer dealers where Pioneer was previewing their upcoming 2003 product line. He said the Pioneer reps. were asked this question also. I was surprised when he admitted to me that the Pioneer reps. confirmed that the two units are indeed the same(minus the frame).

Believe me, it was also hard for me to imagine that the Elite wouldn't have at least some improvements over the commercial line. But after hearing it come directly from Pioneer what more is there to argue about? When you think about it though, the most expensive part of a plasma display is the glass. The electronics are really cheap in comparison. It's a completely different issue with CRT displays. With RPTV's it's easier to differentiate by using better lenses, screens, etc. Plasma technology is currently far too expensive to make major changes between product lines.

Scott

 

[EricHaas]

Yep, all three 50" Pios use exactly the same glass and electronics. Pioneer has confirmed this many times. The 5030HD uses an inferior scaler in the external box. That's why the PQ isn't as good. But even then, there won't be any difference in the black levels. Sometimes different models will look different with the same settings even though the panels are essentially the same. It is a known fact that salesmen calibrate more expensive models more carefully. Also, default settings might well be different between the models.

 

[Jim FC]

Scott,
Your point is well taken, but if you read through this entire thread you'll see that the initial comparison between Pioneer TVs was between the Elite and the PDP505HD. I don't believe the PDP505 is (was) a commercial model. Even when the 503CMX was brought up later, we still had a post in there about the 50" Pioneers at Best Buy, which wouldn't be the 503CMX, it would be the 5030HD. I've never seen a 503CMX, and I've never mentioned one in any of my posts "criticizing others input." I stand by my comparison of the Elite to the standard-line (5030HD) plasmas.

Jim

 

[ScottA]

Jim,
If you go back and look at the posts chronologically you will see that Rich H commented that "Pioneer charges extra for the Elite model, but you'll get the same performance from the cheaper model (same glass/electronics are used - despite what a salesman might try and tell you in order to sell you the Elite model)."
After that you said "This is a very uninformed statement. They are not the same TV, any more than Pioneer's Elite RPTV is the same as their standard line, or Sony's XBRs are the same TVs as their high-scans. Because the two TVs share certain components does _not_ mean they are the same TV. That's akin to saying that the Camaro is the same car as the Corvette, other than the styling. Very untrue." Apparently you had thought he was talking about the 5030HD. I can see how you could have thought that.
By the way both of these posts were before anything was said about Best Buy.
Then Rich made a post in response to you stating that he should have been more clear and indicated that he was indeed referring to the 503CMX.
Then I supported Rich by stating very clearly that "There is no difference in picture quality between the Pioneer 503CMX and the Elite Pro-1000..." I mentioned several times the display I was comparing the Elite to was the 503CMX.
Then came the post "I was wandering around a BestBuy the other day and saw the new 50" Pioneer plasma TV. I was very impressed with the picture. It blew away all the other TV's in the store.
But the price of $12K is up there." No mention was made of any comparison between the Elite and anything else, so that post is irrelevant.
Your next post, which I think very clearly was in response to mine and Rich's stated "With all due respect, I have seen the Elite and the standard-line Pioneer plasmas side-by-side, with all adjustments as close as I can get 'em, and the Elite looks noticeably better... better black level, better color, better detail. Just because they use the same glass doesn't make them the same TV, any more than Sony using the same tubes in the different Wegas means that the XBR is the same as the S-series. This is the problem with trusting these forums, spec sheets, and the like - you need to trust your own eyes more than anything (assuming you know what to look for, that is)." Once again, remember this came soon after my post about the 503CMX and after Rich had clarified that he was referring to the 503CMX. So when you made that post you cannot go back and argue that anyone would have thought we were referring to anything other than the 503 CMX!
I made it very clear in my last response that:
1) "You are correct in that the 5030HD is different. While it does have the same exact glass as the Elite/503CMX, it does have the external tuner but lacks the expansion slot. Most people agree that something in the external control box degrades the picture somewhat."
2) "We are not comparing the Elite with the standard line Pioneer(5030HD).We are talking about the commercial version Pioneer 503CMX."
Please "can't we all just get along"
Scott

 

[Roger Mathus]

In Tokyo, one can see all of the brands side by side. Based upon a number of visits, I find the Fujitsu slightly better than the Pioneer but it is really a toss up. The new Sony models (mentioned above in the thread) upon initial reaction are also now right up there.In the past I have found the Sonys not very good compared to the Fujitsu and Pioneer. In Tokyo, export models of the Fujitsu cost less than the Pioneers.Anyone looking towards a plasma should look at the new Sony with XBR designation.