Help my friend avoid Bose

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by JJR512, Feb 25, 2002.

  1. JJR512

    JJR512 Supporting Actor

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    I know Bose speakers are no good. I know to tell other people this. But I know someone who actually wants to buy a set, the "Acoustimass® 15 Home Theater Speaker System", and as I was getting ready to tell him to avoid Bose, it suddenly occurred to me that I don't actually know what to tell him WHY to avoid Bose.
    I have a neighbor who works for a professional audio/video installer company; they've done things like the PA setups at Presidential debates, installations at theaters and stadiums (including Oriole Park at Camden Yards), etc. He says they once had a Bose rep give them a set as a sample of something he wanted them to carry. The people from the installer company tested the Bose set and found that not only did it perform far below the stated specs, but when they tried to give it the full power the specs said it could handle, the speakers were destroyed.
    This is just one thing I can tell my friend. I know this place is big anti-Bose (or at least it used to be). I know if I tell this guy that Bose speakers are crap he's going to wonder if they're so bad, how then did Bose get to be so big and popular? And I don't know what to tell him. Please people, give me something I can use to fight the instanity! [​IMG]
     
  2. Brett DiMichele

    Brett DiMichele Producer

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    Justin,

    It's simple really... Just tell this friend that if he or

    she is seriously considering the Bose Acoustimass system

    to compare the specs to other similar "packages" from other

    companies.. Compare specs like Frequency Response, Sensitivity etc..

    Then perhaps he or she will ask you "why doesn't Bose publish

    these specifications when even the cheapest speaker companies

    publish them.

    Ask he or she why they want paper cone speakers with no

    high frequency drivers mounted in cheap plastic cases.

    Lasty tell them that the Demo they hear or see in BestBuy

    is going to be drasticly diffrent than when they get it home. If all else fails jut say hey "It is your money"...
     
  3. Brian Bowles

    Brian Bowles Second Unit

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    It is not that Bose is really that bad. It is just that they are way over priced. Your friend can buy much better speakers for the same price. For instance, go to Circuit City and listen to the Polk rt-25i speakers. The are bookshelf speakers that can be purchased for $99 each. The matching center channel is the 245i. It sells for $199. So the cost of 4 speakers and the center would be $600. He can then spend some money on a sub. The bose sub is not really a sub. It is just where the very small amount of bass that is produced is sent. I have this package and I really like it. Of course I have two SVS CS+ subs with it too. There are better speakers but this is a great starter. All of my friends that come over are really impressed with the sound of the SVS and Polk speakers. I would reccommend this set up if it is the price your friend wants to spend.
     
  4. Martice

    Martice Screenwriter

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    Hi Justin. Although I don't agree with the price/performance ratio of the Acoustimass series of Bose speakers, I have a few questions for you.

    Have you ever heard the Bose Acoustimass system and listened to it critically? If not, you should really go do that as soon as possible.

    Has your friend heard your system yet? The best way for you to show your friend the "weaknesses" of the Bose Acoustimass system is to let him/her hear your system. If Bose sucks as bad as everyone says, then it should be easy for them to see, feel and recognize the difference.

    Your friend might be intrigued with the small size and operational simplicity offered by the Bose systems as well as feeling secure with the name. To some, these aspects are priceless and worth the cost of admission and regardless of what scientific, financial or quality related issue you bring up they are still sold on these offerings provided by Bose.

    Last question is how important is "scientifically accurate" sound to your friend? If they are not at all interested in the quest for this aspect of Audio/HT and are intent on purchasing Bose then I say let them. You'll know if they are happy with the Bose purchase or not. If they are not thrilled with the performance, let them know of their options to do research and critical listening. However, if they are smiling after their purchase, let it be and move on.
     
  5. Thomas_A

    Thomas_A Second Unit

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    I was in the same boat as you... except had two friends that wanted bose systems... I was able to save one..but the other is going to the gutter. I did what was said above. took her and her girlfriend to CC and had them listen to real speakers... this after they like the lifestyle 25 system!..

    they left with rt35's front, 25's rear, 245i center, cht10 sub and an onkyo 596.. for 1k less and have been totaly impressed with it since...

    need to go with them shoping and be subjective..normaly people changer there mind once they do critical listening.
     
  6. BrianWoerndle

    BrianWoerndle Supporting Actor

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    I owned an Acoustimass system for 2 years, so I know first hand their performance. I spent $1000 on the Bose, and replaced them with a $1300 set of Paradigm speakers. The Paradigms are light years ahead of the Bose for just a little more. Here are the advantages and disadvantages of the Bose system:
    Advantages:
    Small design will fit seamlessly into any decor.
    Spacious sound field due to mostly reflected sound
    Disadvantages:
    Paper or not, a 2 1/4" wide range driver can not put out a full range of frequencies. I have seen actual test data on the Acoustimass 10 system. The cubes can reproduce a range of 400hz to 13,000hz. The Bass module uses 3 - 5 1/4" drivers. They are not able to produce low bass. You need a 10"-15" speaker to accurately reproduce anywhere near a 20hz frequence. It is the basic laws of physics and how it can manipulate the air to make sound waves. A small speaker can not do it. The Acoustimass module covers a range of 80hz to 250hz. So in the end you are missing 20hz-80hz, 250hz-400hz, and 13,000hz-20,000hz. That's alot. It doesn't even make a difference on how good the paper cone sounds when you are not even hearing almost half of it. As they say: "No highs, now lows, It must be Bose."
    If your friend is a number person, these frequency response numbers should hit home. Until I saw these numbers I was not totaly convinced that Bose were all that bad. But after knowing this, I started looking for the deficiancies. So when I got the Paradigms, I did side by side comparisons. The difference is out of this world.
     
  7. Keith Mickunas

    Keith Mickunas Cinematographer

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    Here's the two most recent threads on the subject:
    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...threadid=51345
    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...threadid=51238
    I swear, we practically need one of these set at the top of the page so one thread can cover it all forever, at the very least perhaps the best of the anti-Bose threads should be archived.
    And Justin, this place is so anti-Bose I'm surprised it hasn't made it into the rules along with being anti-Divx (moot now, but I believe it was in there once) and supporting OAR.
     
  8. matthew_rm

    matthew_rm Second Unit

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  9. MikeH1

    MikeH1 Screenwriter

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    Its anti-Bose for good reason. Most newbies don't use a search function to inform themselves about past subjects so as long as there is a current Bose thread they catch the drift of the "performance/value" factor real quick.

    Admittedly, most of us were there at one time. I don't think there is any denying that these speakers are not the deal that we all once thought they were. I had more people say good things without even listening to my overpriced Bose 401s than my current Mirage OM-10s.

    They are not a very good speaker. The unreleased specs confirm that. And the company knows that most will not understand these specs so upon request will provide them.

    Its a shady way to do business but is successful. Very successful. I still have friends, upon reading these threads on HTF, looking at the specs, Bose FAQ's provided on the net and also me informing them about my own personal thoughts about them, they still insist this is what they want to own to reproduce their music.

    And the funny thing is, once they own them and listen to their capabilities and then listen to other people systems that cost half as much then they start questioning their choice, after being "convinced". In the end it matters if they can admit to their inferior sound for many do not.

    Such a shame.
     
  10. Will Pomeroy

    Will Pomeroy Stunt Coordinator

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    He he, that reminds me of a guy at work, we were talking about home theater stuff to another guy, and he was telling him how bose was the top of the line, and nothing beats it, but he didn't think it was worth that kind of money, because you can get almost as good stuff for cheaper... I was just laughing to myself... what a sucker... looks like somebody has spent too much time talking to the sales people at futureshop/bestbuy/circut city... ouch.
     
  11. Rich G

    Rich G Stunt Coordinator

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  12. DanaA

    DanaA Screenwriter

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    Have him read through all the comments made on this thread on exactly the speakers they have bought and he is considering buying. If after reading this link below, he still wants Bose, then he deserves what he gets.
    Link:http://www.audioreview.com/Main,Spea...1_1594crx.aspx
     
  13. KrisM

    KrisM Second Unit

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    I owned a pair of 401s years ago and I would ask him this simple question: Do you ever plan on sitting down and listening to music for a couple of hours? If he says 'yes', tell him to forget Bose because after an hour his ears will hurt. Ear fatigue is pretty high with Bose speakers.

    Regards

    KrisM
     
  14. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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  15. JJR512

    JJR512 Supporting Actor

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    I did give him a link to this thread, and after reviewing it, he decided to return them. [​IMG]
    He also said he registered here, and as soon as his reg is validated, he'll be dropping by here, I believe to ask for recommendations.
    Now I know how much anti-Bose some people around here can be. [​IMG] But remember, you don't need to jump all over him for even considering Bose in the first place; remember, he decided to return them after reading the intelligent replies to this thread. And as Michael Hein said, it's a step that many of us have been through before.
    This originally came up because this guy is a member on my own message board (it's more about computers and general topics), and posted there about buying some Bose speakers. You can see that thread here.
     
  16. BryanZ

    BryanZ Screenwriter

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    Basically frequency response of the AM series, price/performance ratio, things like that. I'm guessing your friend will have a budget around $1,300. Have him/her look at offerings from Paradigm, B&W, Def Tech, NHT, Ascend Acoustics, Energy, nOrh, Axiom, HTD, etc.
     
  17. Ryan Spaight

    Ryan Spaight Supporting Actor

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    Yes, many of us have been there. I had an Acoustimass system for a few years until I started poking around the Net and realized there was better stuff out there. Ditched the Bose in favor of an NHT setup that stomped the Bose in every way, and wasn't even that much bigger.

    The frequency analysis above is spot on. There are huge holes in the Acoustimass frequency response. The bass is boomy to try to cover it up, which can sound impressive in an in-store demo under the right conditions. The cubes attempt to cover both high bass and high treble, and end up reproducing neither.

    It's a mess, I tells ya.

    Ryan

    PS - Oh, and these babies with their cheap plastic "cabinets" picked up CB broadcasts like a finely tuned antenna. If you're interested in hearing truckers on your HT, Bose is the system for you.
     
  18. PhilH

    PhilH Auditioning

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    Hi, my name is Phil and I almost purchased some Bose speakers [​IMG]
    My experince with Bose:
    14-15 years ago I wanted to purchase some new kick ass speakers. I marched down to the local Circuit City and proceeded to the sound room at which time I demoed a set of Bose 901's and a set of Cerwin Vega AT15's. The choice was very simple, Cerwin Vega. The Bose speakers were too high pitchy with almost no bass. I have been very pleased with those speakers and somewhere along the line I purchased a pair of Polk M3 speakers which was a half hearted attempt at a surround system.
    A couple of years ago my parents purchased a Bose Wave Radio. Of the few times I have listned to it, it sounded better than any radio I ever heard.
    I also have a friend who works for Muzak and has installed many many Bose sound systems. He gave the Bose AM 15 a very high rating but didn't have any technical data to back it up. I did find out that the difference between what he installs and what I almost purchased is industrial vs commercial. I don't know if there are any technical/structural differences between the two models other than the commercial model comes with a molded cable with RCA jacks where as the industrial model just has standard clip on jacks on the AM module. I did verify this with my friend.
    I purchased the AM 15 set based on the recommendation of a close friend and a radio my parents have.....and they were on sale for $100 dollars off. I should have remembered my experience 14 years ago and why I chose the Cerwin Vega's.
    Then I went and tooted my own horn over at Justins' place and thank God Justin sent me over here. Like Justin said, I did decide to return the speakers. What is really funny is I spent day's and day's reading reviews on a $122 motherboard I purchased yet purchased a $1200 set of speakers without reading review one....DOOOOOOHHHHHH
    Last year about this time, I purchased the following equipment:
    Sony receiver - STR-DE945
    Sony 400 disc megachanger - CDP-CX400
    Sony DVD - DVP-S360
    Sony Wega TV - KV-36FS12
    JVC VCR - HR-DD740U (had this for a few years)
    I am not REAL pleased with the Sony stuff, but that's another whole thread.
    Of course I had the Cerwin Vega and the Polk speakers hooked up to this equipment. I don't think I actually ever heard the Polk speakers because I never had the reciever in surround mode cause I didn't have a center channel speaker.
    With the recent arrival of my tax refund and my sons' birthday coming up (he really want's those Cerwin Vega's) and I'm remodeling my living room (carpeting and paint), I decided to get serious about speakers. I have budgeted max $1500 for this. I have been reading thru threads here and will be for some time till I decide which speakers to go with. Any suggestions are much appreciated.
    Any comments on those Polk M3's? Should I build a set of speakers around them?
     
  19. RichardH

    RichardH Supporting Actor

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  20. Tyson

    Tyson Stunt Coordinator

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    Hey, what motherboard did you buy for $122? Was it to upgrade an existing pc, or building a new one from scratch?
    Anyway, for speakers in your price range, I like the nOrh ceramic 4.0's (5 for $850), www.norh.com - combine that with a killer sub like the SVS 20-39 PCi, and you will have a great setup that will produce ALL the HT sound spectacularly. Of course, both SVS and nOrh are internet based companies, but in my experience, trying to get something of similar quality from a retail store gets MUCH more expensive very quickly.
    Some other internet direct possibilities to check out for main speakers are ascend acoustics and Swan Diva's - both have good marks from owners, but are a little more expensive.
    For subs, besides SVS, there is adire audio and Hsu Research. But with their new PCi line, I think SVS is the unmatched price/performance leader at this point in time. . .
     

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