Help me choose my subwoofer!!

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Nick V, Aug 5, 2002.

  1. Nick V

    Nick V Second Unit

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    I have finally narrowed it down to 2 subs. I am no longer considering DIY (I don't have the time) nor will I be considering a mailorder sub (too much hassle).

    That being said, I am going to be choosing between the Mirage BPS-400 and the PSB Stratus Subsonic 7. Which one would you get, why??

    Any input would be greatly appreciated!!

    Nick
     
  2. Ned

    Ned Supporting Actor

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    What's wrong with mailorder? I wouldn't recommend either of those subs in light of what's available from SVS, HSU and Adire.

    The Adire Rava, SVS 25-35PC and VTF-2 would all whip those subs and probably end up costing ~900 to your door.
     
  3. Chip E

    Chip E Screenwriter

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    I found no "hassle" at all ordering an SVS sub over a year ago... Neither of the subs you mention can touch it (IMO of course) and i run PSB speakers all around.
     
  4. Nick V

    Nick V Second Unit

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    Ned,
    I know about how good the SVS' supposedly are (I haven't heard one), but how can you say that the adire rava, a 12" sub in a small enclosure with 250watts of power whould whip both a dual 12" setup in a huge enclusure with 400watts of power, or a 15" sub in a large enclosure with 330watts of power?? Same goes for the VTF-2, I'm curious.
     
  5. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    I'd take the Mirage over the PSB.

    And you are correct Nick, niether the Rava or the VTF2 will be able to take a BPS400 in output (and the BPS400 sound quality should be similar to the Rava's). The SVS 25-31PC and the Mirage should be very close to each other in both categories though.
     
  6. Ned

    Ned Supporting Actor

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    Dustin-
    I checked the stats on the BPS-400; dual 8" woofers in an approximately 22" cube. That's not going to touch the performance of the Rava and VTF-2, both with long throw 12's in the same cabinet size. An SVS 25-35 would kick it's ass and have enough left over to whip another BPS-400 [​IMG]
     
  7. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    Sorry Ned, but you've got alot of this wrong. He said the BPS400 not the 150. The BPS400 has two 12" drivers in a sealed design, a 400W RMS amp and is in a 21 1/2 x 23 1/2 x 19 1/2 inch enclosure that weighs 110lbs.

    The VTF2 uses a 10" driver not a 12" driver and is a bass reflex design while the Rava is a 0.65Q sealed design. The VTF2 has a 150W RMS amp while the Rava has a 250W amp.

    Because it is a bass refex design the VTF2 might edge the Rava a bit in output down low. Above 30hz it will be even or the Rava will have the advantage. But the Rava will sound better.

    Above 30hz the SVS will have a slight edge over the Rava, below 30hz it will pull away. Rava may have a slight edge in sound quality.

    The Mirage will equal or surpase the SVS above 30hz. Below 30hz it will be close for a while but the SVS will pull away output wise (how far depends on which model of SVS). Sound quality, I can't say for sure as I don't know the Q for the Mirage. But my above post has my guess.

    What can you get the Mirage for Nick?
     
  8. Ned

    Ned Supporting Actor

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    Price looks to be about $800 us. I don't see any objective testing of it, just "ooh ahh, shook my dog" reviews [​IMG]
    On paper it's still just dual 12's in a small sealed box with only 400 watts total power. I'm sure you know how this sims and you can be sure that the drivers are not even Shiva level.
     
  9. Ned

    Ned Supporting Actor

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  10. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    Yes, that spec is BS, but so are the manufactures specs of almost every other sub out there. I'd bet money it will outgun a Rava or VTF2. It's one of the better non internet direct subs out there.
     
  11. Ned

    Ned Supporting Actor

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    I did some surfing and the bps-400 is rather old (circa 97-98). There is even a review on SVS's site of someone who replaced one with dual 20-39CS (probably the old driver too) and they said it was a huge improvement.

    Other reviews I came across aid the bps-400 had lots of output but that it had overhang and lack of definition. All in all it sounds like the old breed of subs.

    List is $1300, street is around $800. For that money you gotta think of the VTF-3 or PC-plus.
     
  12. Rosano

    Rosano Extra

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    Ned..you need to get your facts staight.The Mirage BPS 400
    was discontinued for a very brief period of time..but is now back into production...demand for this sub was so high that Mirage decided to bring it back.

    Your statement of its old technology makes no sense...most speaker designs and sub design are based on design principles that have been around for years.Its how these designs are implemented and the quality of components used are the key elements on the final product.I am sure ..no positive that all the subs you mentioned would serve Nick's purposes very well.Is one sub wayyyyyyy better than the other? I seriously doubt it.

    You seem to slam the BPS 400....This sub has been universally acclaimed to be one of the best out there.Richard Hardesty said its one of the best LFE sub ever made....The Perfect Vision called it a best buy in the last issue....who cares how old the design is!!!The reviews are all great.Just because one person went from Mirage to SVS doesn't make one better than the other..how many went the other way??

    Nick regardless of what we all say here you need to audition whatever you buy and you make the decision based on what you hear..your budget...and how it integrates with your set up and your room...

    Oh and by the way...I have one!
     
  13. Ned

    Ned Supporting Actor

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    1 biased owner vs another [​IMG]
    Universally acclaimed by who? The *buzz* is pretty small for such a "great" sub.
    Since you have one, how bout doing a little 20-30hz SPL testing so we can see what the performance is like?
     
  14. Rosano

    Rosano Extra

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    Ned...What difference would it make.The point isn't mine is bigger than yours... I don't care who has the better sub..I'm sure your sub is great. All I'm saying is get the facts straight when you give advice...[​IMG]
     
  15. Nick V

    Nick V Second Unit

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    I went ahead and purchased the BPS-400. I got it for a steal of a price @ $999 CDN including tax.

    It's not broken in yet as it was bought yesterday, but so far I love it. It's especially amazing compared to my previous sub, an 8" Polk Audio w/ 100 watts of power.

    I was not considering the SVS subs as they are IMO ugly as hell, and my mom would not allow one of those in her house.
     
  16. Rosano

    Rosano Extra

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    Nick..congrats on the sub...You would not have been disappointed with any of the subs you mentioned.You just needed to make your call on your terms.Thats a damn good price.
     
  17. Ned

    Ned Supporting Actor

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    The MAF strikes again [​IMG]
    Rosano-
    When it comes to movies, there's no replacement for displacement. If a sub can't belt out gobs of 20-30hz bass then I consider it useless for movies (guy's movies that is).
    Music is a totally different situation.
     
  18. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    Ned, then you better get a new sub as well. As ~1.5L of Vd is not what I would call gobs of displacement. When you get that original SVS driver in a nice box and are using them both then you'll have a nice amount of Vd.
    If you are building your own speaker stands may I suggest getting rid of both and building Adire's new 15" driver that will be released in the next month or so into a 6ft^3 enclosure tuned to 16-18hz with a pair of Stryke 18" passive radiators and a kilowatt pro amp. Now that is a healthy amount of displacement (over 5L of very linear Vd).
    For gobs of Vd, you'll need to put 4 of Adires new drivers in an infinite baffel. Now that would be gobs of Vd, over 20L of it [​IMG]
     
  19. Ned

    Ned Supporting Actor

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    Dustin-
    I have the old svs driver laying around still and the parts for a clone svs. But just too busy with renovating my downstairs for a dedicated theater to do it.
    I'm toying with the idea of a 4 tempest IB since I have an adjacent laundry room that wouldn't mind the bass [​IMG]
    Do you think that would be enough liters for a 9x16 room [​IMG]
     
  20. Ned

    Ned Supporting Actor

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    Dustin-

    Btw, is there a wiring arrangement that would let me run 4 Tempests from a Samson S700 using both channels at 4 ohms?

    [email protected]
    or
    [email protected]

    2 sets in series parallel into the bridged?
     

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