help me build a sub that is on par or outperforms the paradigm servo 15 or any ..

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by KonradN, May 31, 2001.

  1. KonradN

    KonradN Stunt Coordinator

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    other in the same class.
    it will be a 50/50 music/ht sub and should be able to compete with the servo 15 in terms of bass extension, output level from 16hz to 80hz, impact (how much u can feel the subwoofer),transient response, distortion. In short it should be a very musical sub and create enough output to be close to reference (maybe -10db from reference)accross the frequency range.
    some other requirements are that it should be smaller than 150 liter, but 200 would be the absolute max.
    budget- about 500 to 800 for a passive design.
    I will be buying some external amp with plenty of juice to power it.
    the stryke 15 with dual pr kit seems to be the ticket since it smokes any subwoofer in terms of output level, but I don't know how musical this sub will be.
     
  2. Julian Data

    Julian Data Second Unit

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    KonradN:
    Depending on the design, majority of DIY subs kill the Servo15, which is attributed by the limitations on size and the monetary factor from the manufacturer.
    The HE15 is a notable DIY since it's seems to be the only that has been measured by TN Communications but there are other DIY designs out there that can equal or surpass this unit.
    How much power you are planning to provide?
    jd
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  3. KonradN

    KonradN Stunt Coordinator

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    haven't decided on the amp yet so don't know how much power i can provide the sub, but my budget for the amp is around 500.
     
  4. Julian Data

    Julian Data Second Unit

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    Ok.. 400W/driver?
    one Driver, more than one?
    You do realize that the Power15/HE15 had mucho power involved to get those numbers? Unless you plan to run a PRO amp and then bridging the amp to run the HE15 PR box, that would be your best bet as the driver takes up 2000W total (1000W/VC). If you run half the power expect a drop in 3dB across the board and also keep in mind that's Tom Nousiane's large room that the sub was measured in so your numbers could vary. Figuratively, higher or lower.
    JD
    PS: I recall John recommends 3 Stryke/Lambda PR drivers or 2 PRHE15. Heck, then there's the new PR18s. [​IMG]
    If you decide in what route you can afford, I think I and others can conjure something up. [​IMG]
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  5. KonradN

    KonradN Stunt Coordinator

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    for around 500 i think i can get the samson amp that puts out 700 watts, but then maybe there is something better. i don't know how many drivers but given the space and cash limitation probably just one unless 2 can go into a 150l box.
     
  6. Julian Data

    Julian Data Second Unit

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    What Stryke has planned is a Dual HE15 config up to 200L box.
    Of course, that goes out of your budget.
    Let me play around some..
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  7. James W. Johnson

    James W. Johnson Screenwriter

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    I know the Paradigm Servo-15 very well because I used to own one. I am sure a single Stryke driver will outperform the Servo-15 but if you want to save a few bucks then a single Tempest sub in 200liters tuned to 18Hz will also beat the Servo-15.
    You could build a Tempest sub for about...
    $140 Tempest driver
    $180 AVA250 amp
    $150 building supplies/wood and finish
    So for $470 or so you would have a sub that would sound as good as the Servo-15 for music, beat it in output, beat the tar out of it in extension.
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    James' DIY speakers
     
  8. KonradN

    KonradN Stunt Coordinator

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    well 200 liters is a bit too big. Assuming i have about 800 watts into 4 ohm, how much will i loose in extension and output by going with a single shiva II sub over the tempest and would the shiva II in a optimally designed ported box be enough to ouperform the servo 15 in extension, output, and musicality?
     
  9. Jack Gilvey

    Jack Gilvey Producer

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    I'm never really sure what people mean by "musicality", but that's a tall order for a Shiva, at least in terms of output. If you're really intent on performance, go with a Tempest. If you have enough power on tap, and you need a smaller-than-optimal enclosure,you can boost the bass around tuning with an eq, like Hsu Research does.
     
  10. KonradN

    KonradN Stunt Coordinator

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    when i talking about musicallity I am referring to excellent transient response, clean undistorted bass, flat frequency repsonce... basically accurate live-like reproduction of the origincal bass source.
    So a single shiva II will not be able to outgun a servo 15 no matter how much power you throw at it? how about audiomobile mass 12 inch subs. i know there are car audio subs but apperently they can be used for home applications as well. I know they're expensive but they have a small vas and very high x-mas. anybody used them to build a home sub yet?
     
  11. Julian Data

    Julian Data Second Unit

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    If you are looking for the perfect transient response then a Q alignment of .5 would have to fit the bill! [​IMG]
    I have used Dual MASS subs in a sonotube powered by a k2. I have also done a Dual Shiva tube powered by an Adcom 555II.
    All my 12" subs are now in the autos as I plan on building a dual 15" PR sub that will be 'modular' in design.
    I might sell the 12" drivers though. Heck, I even have the some endcaps for 24" tubes that I might sell. Dunno yet.
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  12. Jack Gilvey

    Jack Gilvey Producer

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    Do a search on the Mass, there are others besides Julian's excellent one. I know TerryC did one, using a single driver. If I recall correctly, his ported Tempest beat it handily, but there was some contention over the adequacy of the porting for the Mass. Anyway, that would probably be your best bet if you're set on a 12".
    Regardless of how much power you have, a given driver can only take so much. And, regardless of a driver's rated Pmax (its thermal limit), a driver can usually take less than half of that to exceed Xmax just above tuning in a reflex enclosure. Download LSPCad from Adireaudio.com and you can model it.
     
  13. John E Janowitz

    John E Janowitz Second Unit

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    KonradN,
    The single HE15 based system when finished is a 22" cube. This requires the HE15 woofer, pair of 18" dual spider PR's, and the enclosure of course. Enclosures can be purchased from here, or if you would like to build your own, the CAD drawings with complete plans are on the website. The HEPR's are no longer being offered, and the pair of 18" PR's works much better than 3 15" PR's.
    As for how musical the subwoofer would be, everyone who has built one has been more than happy. You may want to check out the ongoing thread on the AVS forum regarding the HE15 based subwoofer. Several who have built the subs have posted pictures and their opinions of the subwoofer:
    http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/003352.html
    As for amplifier power, I would stay away from the Samson amps. IF fan noise is not a problem for you, you could pick up something like a Crown CE2000 used for around $500, or various QSC RMX series amps new for around that cost. Either Crown or QSC would be much more reliable than the Samson. The only advantage to the Samson is the quiter fan.
    The MASS12 drivers are a good woofer for DIY as well, but you will need 2 drivers to equal the displacement of a single HE15, and you will also need a larger enclosure.
    John
     

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