Help installing hard drive

Discussion in 'Computers' started by Kevin H, Aug 22, 2003.

  1. Kevin H

    Kevin H Agent

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    I got a 40 GB hard drive for my HP with Windows XP. I have never installed one before so I don't really know what I'm doing. I have a 3.5" disk case with a space open (there's the original hard drive and the floppy disk drive) so I took the case out and put in the new hard drive. I didn't do anything to the jumper cables because it looked like it was in the right spot..

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    I checked my manual for the computer and it said to make sure it's in the CS position, and I think that's what it is, right? So the next thing I did was put the drive cage back in. It said connect the power cable to the new hard drive. I have no idea what that is, so I took a multicolored four pronged thing that was sticking out of the place where it looked like the power was going (also every other drive has one of these in it) and plugged it in and it fit.

    The next thing the manual said to do was to connect the part of the cable that said "master" to the original hard drive and the part that said "slave" to the new HD. I didn't see any marking of this on the cable so I left the part that was plugged into the original hard drive plugged in and saw that halfway through this cable was a place where you could plug it into something. So I assumed this was the slave part and plugged it into the back of my new HD. The reason why I couldn't use the packaged ATA cable is because there is only one slot on my motherboard (currently being used by the old HD).

    So I started the computer up and as all the startup programs are starting up there's an icon that says "new hardware found - maxtor drive" or something. Then as soon as everything's up, it restarts. I let it go through again and it did the same thing. So it looks like it starts up, then as soon as everything's loaded, it automatically restarts.

    Can anyone help me with this please? I'm going back to school tomorrow and I want to get this done so I know I'll have my computer ready when I get back, and also..i still have to pack! Thanks a lot!

    edit - I just went into the BIOS and it recognizes the drive as the "Primary Slave" drive and recognizes it as a 40 GB HD and it looks good from what I can tell, but the computer still reboots every time I start it up.
     
  2. Cees Alons

    Cees Alons Moderator
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    Kevin,

    The jumper shouldn't be in the CS position, unless you have a cable connected that emulates the jumper function.
    Put it in the Slave position (assuming that you want to keep the original disc as the master). This should make your new disc #1 (the original disc is #0). If the jumper (or a second jumper) allows you to choose the number, make sure it's set as '001' (binary) - but most probably it's not there.

    You did the right thing when you connected that connector that was halfway the grey cable (it can only go in in one position). Same for the power cable (the multi-coloured one), the white connector has a "corner" that shows how to connect (and prevents doing it the wrong way).

    So, after you set the Master/Slave/CS jumper right this time, it should work.

    Good luck,

    Cees
     
  3. Kevin H

    Kevin H Agent

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    Thanks a lot Cees, I'll try that.
     
  4. Kevin H

    Kevin H Agent

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    Before trying that, I looked at the two manuals again (the one from the computer and the one that came with the HD) and saw these two things:

    First the manual from the computer tells me to use the CS position(#5): [​IMG]

    But anyway, say I am going to change it to the slave position, where would I put the jumper that is already in? And what's the deal with the single black spot? Right now it's like the bottom one (that's the way it came) but I don't know what the dotted lines are.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Cees Alons

    Cees Alons Moderator
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    Kevin,

    There should be a sticker on your hard drive (could be almost anywhere) that shows how to make the jumper be CS, Master and Slave. It will also show what the "quiet" position for a jumper is, if you have one left. Most of the time, it will show all the jumpers that came with your drive (two, probably) in the proper positions for how you want to set it.
    Be sure to look at it the proper way (not upside down), it may have an 'assymetry' marking.

    Cees
     
  6. Cees Alons

    Cees Alons Moderator
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    Kevin,

    Sorry, didn't see your drawings earlier.

    That's simple: leave the jumper out (and store it somewhere [​IMG] you may never use it again, though). The single spot on the upper left is the 'assymetry' marking, I wrote about: that way you cannot put the jumpers in the wrong way (unless you're stupid). But in your case: no jumper at all.

    (That place in the upper right might be idle, so it could store the jumper - but don't count on it!).

    The dotted lines are for a jumper they call the Cylinder Limitation Jumper. Perhaps it tells the drive not to use all of it's cylinders. Not for you.

    Cees
     
  7. Kevin H

    Kevin H Agent

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    Ok Cees, I appreciate your help through this because I am totally lost. Unfortunately for me, I took out the jumper from the new HD and started up the computer and...same thing! It restarted again as soon as the startup programs were done loading.

    I took a look inside and noticed that the old HD has a jumper across the top left horizontally, which is different than what the diagram says, but then again, it's a different HD so maybe that's why. But also, why would the jumper even matter because nothing is even touching it. The slave ATA cable is plugged into the thing to the left of where the jumper cables would be and the power is to the right of where the jumper cables would be..

    Anyway, do you have any other ideas now that taking the jumper out still hasn't worked? Thanks.
     
  8. Cees Alons

    Cees Alons Moderator
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    Kevin,

    As long as that first disc was the only one, it didn't matter too much. But now the designations simply must be correct. Normally, adding a second disc is a ten minutes (or so) simple job.

    That first disc is different, but it also has a diagram somewhere. In the worst case you must take it out to find that (and in the even 'worser' [​IMG] case, the jumper may appear to be placed correctly), but in your place, I would want to check that.

    To me it seems that the original manual of your computer assumed another cable, so now you must be sure that the first disc is manually set to Master and the second one to Slave (meaning: #0 and #1, respectively, of that IDE controller).

    I assume you already made certain that nothing else was changed (or makes false contact). Also, the screws fastening the drives MAY come rather close to the electronic circuit on some drives, please check that they cannot touch any copper.

    All connectors have to be pressed gently, but firmly in place. Please also check that all those little pins are still upright and in their proper position.


    Cees
     
  9. Kevin H

    Kevin H Agent

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  10. Lee L

    Lee L Supporting Actor

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    You manually set the master and slave drives using the jumper blocks on the drives. If you take the original drive out, it should have a similar diagram on it to tell you how to set the master/slave. If it does not have anything, or it is not legible, you can check here for a listing of many drives. You will need teh model number though. Once the drives are set as master and slave it will not matter where on the cable they are hooked up.
     
  11. Cees Alons

    Cees Alons Moderator
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    Kevin,

    Because the cable does have a "master" and "slave" marking after all, it could be possible that some wiring (in the connectors) made sure it connects the drives as such. In that case, the CS (Cable Setting) would be appropriate on both drives.

    However, after you connected the cable with that jumper setting, the drive was indeed recognized (suggesting that most of the connections were OK), but it went wrong as soon as Windows tried to start up. That suggests an improper designation of the drive numbers, so that's why I wonder if the cable does it's job in that respect.

    You now have already set the second drive to Slave, so if you still feel you want to go and try further, you can safely do the same (but then as "Master") for the first drive. That way, it won't matter whether or not the cable effectively sets the drives right. Note that you do nothing dangerous by this: just set the first drive's jumper to 'Master", which it should be anyway.

    If you memorize (or write down) the diagram you will find on the first drive, you won't have to take it out later if everything would have to be set to the original settings after all.

    A good test would be this: first set the original drive to 'Master" using the diagram you find on it, then take the (grey wide band) connector on the new drive loose, and see if your PC starts up like normal (if you fear it won't, you could also first do this now, before you change the jumper on the original drive. That way, you make sure there's nothing else gone wrong). If the PC works fine with the first drive set to 'Master", push in the connector on the second one and see if it boots - or not.

    Please let us know what happens. It's a bit difficult to help from a distance, but we simply must be able to find out what's going on [​IMG].

    Cees


    PS
    (1) Kevin, I just realize that some (older) IDE cables have connectors that can inadvertently be placed upside-down. Does this one have a "corner" that corresponds to a corner on the connector of the drive?
    (2) If, at startup, the PC says something like "Disk *brand 1*" and "Disk Maxtor xxxx", please note if they have a number (like 0 and 1) designated to them.
    (3) If we know the outcome of these tests and it still doesn't work, you must visit the BIOS-setup of your PC, but I'm trying to keep that to the very end. [​IMG]
    C.
     
  12. Kevin H

    Kevin H Agent

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    [​IMG]

    This is the diagram on the new drive. It says on top:

    "DS (SLAVE)
    or spare"

    And then down below from left to right:

    "DS (MASTER)" "CS Enabled" "Cap Limit"

    So how should I put this jumper back on? In the top left or in the middle top row?

    Edit - i just tried it in the middle top row..and it restarted again.
     
  13. Cees Alons

    Cees Alons Moderator
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    If the jumpers "lay", it's set to Slave (which is the same as "spare" - the jumpers are in an inactive position).

    If this is the diagram on the new one, then was the one you showed previously of the old drive?

    Cees
     
  14. Ken Chan

    Ken Chan Producer

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    Reading your first message, it sounds like you got the master/slave problem squared away. The BIOS recognizes both drives. So the problem is not with the jumpers (not "jumper cables") or the cabling. Unfortunately, that opens you up to a bunch of other problems.

    Your manual says use Cable Select, so if you're using the drive cable that came with your computer, it should support it. With Cable Select, the drive plugged in at the end of the cable (where your original drive was, right?) is automatically the Master, and the one in the middle (which didn't have anything before, right?) is the Slave.

    You could try this: leave both drives jumpered for Cable Select (you've got that right in your first message). I'm guessing it will still restart. If so, unplug the drive cable from your original, and plug it into the new drive. Now your original drive is disconnected (it still has power, you can leave it alone or disconnect that too) and the new drive is the Master; no Slave. Boot the XP CD and see if the install recognizes the new drive.

    You might have a bad drive.

    //Ken
     
  15. Kevin H

    Kevin H Agent

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    OK It's getting pretty late here considering that I haven't started packing yet and I'm leaving for school tomorrow, so I'm just going to return the hard drive and tell them it's defective, which may be the case following Ken's post. I just don't have the time to deal with it right now. Thank you very much for your efforts, especially Cees, who has helped me throughout the day.
     
  16. Cees Alons

    Cees Alons Moderator
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    Kevin,

    Thanks. Too bad it was to no avail.
    If the new drive works fine: congrats.

    If it doesn't either, here are a few things you still may need to check:

    (1) There's still a hint that the jumpers on the original drive may be set wrong for a 2-disc environment. It should either be 'CS' (assuming that the cable is OK) or 'Master', nothing else, and according to it's own diagram (on a sticker).

    (2) At startup (before the PC boots repeatedly), do BOTH drives show up on you display, and do they have the proper number (0 and 1, respectively)? You said you saw the new one, but is the first drive still present?

    (3) If you're less experienced, take care with this, but you may want to go into the BIOS-setup (your manual will tell you how, or else if it's not displayed at startup, hit CTRL-ALT-DEL and the restart display will say something like 'Hit F1 to enter startup'). Check to see if BOTH discs are displayed under the IDE section, and then check the boot-order section (if present). It should NOT have the new drive before the old one (preferably this section should not have the new drive at all).

    Good luck, I hope it works right away.

    Cees
     

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