Help! I can't get any bass in my new room!

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Mitch Stevens, Dec 23, 2002.

  1. Mitch Stevens

    Mitch Stevens Supporting Actor

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    I don't know if this is the proper place to put a thread like this (Moderators, please feel free to move this to the proper place).

    I was living in my house which had wooden floors, and had my 12" sub in my closet. I calibrated to 75 db with Video Essentials, and the bass response was magnificent! Moulin Rouge had tons of bass. The Haunting had too much bass, that it would shake the entire room, even the ceiling fan!

    Then, I decided to move into the garage, because it is MUCH bigger than my room. The garage is 16' by 19' (not a joke), and has concrete floors. Over the concrete is carpet.

    Again, I set everything up, and calibrated the sub to 75 db, and now I can't feel any bass what-so-ever during Moulin Rouge, and worst of all, not a single bass note from "The Haunting"! What is going on? Can it be the carpet, or is it the concrete under the carpet?

    I then tried to move the sub to different locations in my room. At first I had it had the front left corner. Then, I tried the front right corner. Same thing. Then I put the sub directly touching the back of the sofa (where we sit and watch movies) and I still get the same response. Absolutely no bass what-so-ever! If you put your hand under the sub, you can feel the speaker move, but you can't hear the bass, or even feel it like you could inside my old room.

    Is there anything I could do to improve the bass response in my room, or an I doomed to live in the garage for many years without any bass what-so-ever?

    BTW - Moving back into my old room is not an option any more, because it is much to small to fit all of the new furniture that I got.
     
  2. Brian OK

    Brian OK Supporting Actor

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    Yeah, I can empathize with you regarding bass loss moving from wooden floors to concrete.
    Other than a store-bought fruitcake, there is nothing more inert in a listening room than concrete floor/walls.
    Options are to build a wooden sub-floor on top of the concrete. Or to place the sub on a "riser" platform to get the subs woofer away from the concrete as much as possible (I put my sub on a 3" granite slab, and it helped quite a bit).
    Wooden sub-floor is the best option. Keep in mind your larger room size is as much a reason for the LFE loss as the concrete.
    You could buy a second sub too. Do you have concrete walls too? That is a killer as well.
    Good Luck,

    BOK
     
  3. James Bergeron

    James Bergeron Supporting Actor

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    Hmmm, I can't help but wonder if it has nothing to do with your sub, but what you are use to? Or possibly your sub isn't as "good" as you once thought. I moved from hardwood to concrete and I find my bass is 10 fold better! It's deeper and clean, not standout bass like I had on the hardwood (which was basically a vibration from 35hz up). Again some people think this is excellent bass and go WOW look it's shaking.
    I'm wondering if you are getting better more refined bass but your woofer isn't up to the size of the room.
    Either that or you have it wired wrong [​IMG]
     
  4. BradJudy

    BradJudy Stunt Coordinator

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    Does your garage have an open ceiling? Are the walls drywalled like the rest of the house?

    I"m guessing the lack of bass has more to do with the big area, lack of ceiling and perhaps the structure of the walls than the carpet-on-concrete floors. My HT is in my basement on carpet over concrete and I have great bass (using Hsu VTF-2). My room is about 15'x22'x8', but the listening area is only half of that space.
     
  5. Philip A

    Philip A Agent

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    I had the same problem. Upstairs (2nd story) bedroom rocked, but basement theater room didn't (concrete carpeted, with sheet-rock/stud walls over concrete). I have an older M&K 12" front-firing sub. Like you, I could see that driver move as much as upstairs, there just wasn't the effect!

    Part of my problem was that, as stated above, I was getting "wow"ed by the room vibrations upstairs. However, a friend suggested an interesting approach. I moved my seating in the sweet spot and instead placed my sub there. Then I went around the room on my hands and knees every 2-3 feet to listen/feel how the bass was doing. I did this with a friend so that we could compare notes on the best spot. Once found, I placed the sub in that spot and then replaced my seating--problem greatly improved.

    Don't give up--it may not be the same sound you had (and it may require that you boost the sub more than you had to in the other room), but I have found that it will get better with above method.

    Good luck.
     
  6. Mitch Stevens

    Mitch Stevens Supporting Actor

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    Brian OK
     
  7. BradJudy

    BradJudy Stunt Coordinator

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    Yeah - the concrete walls are the real killer. Combined with the concrete floor there just isn't anything to carry the bass. You might also look into a butt kicker or something similar (the $9 deal ones appear to be sold out) to just have the bass feeling in the furniture.

    If you felt so inclined, putting up framing and drywall over the concrete walls should greatly improve the situation. Kind of an extreme measure, but it might be worth it if this is a permanent location for your HT.
     
  8. Brian OK

    Brian OK Supporting Actor

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    Mitch,
    Are all four of your walls concrete ?
    Two of my walls are concrete (the left wall and the rear wall, with my floor being concrete , as mentioned). When I built my basement HT room over a year ago, I asked the contractor to build out from the concrete walls, so as to create some air space, as well as to allow me some "flex" room for some insulation in between. He came out the depth of a 2x4, and braced the dummy wall with steel L supports (which I smothered with caulk when he left for the night). Before the drywall, I packed it with insulation, and hoped for the best.
    A year later, the room sounds very nice indeed. I place my sub in the corner area where there is NO CONCRETE wall. In other words, the subs is located and "framed" by two double drywall, well insulated, corner walls. More flex here.
    Do NOT give up on your room quite yet. Get a better sub (you have), play around with location of the two subs and just find ways to better the bass response.
    If you have to tweak the concrete walls by "going back in there", then label it as an act of love.
    But don't give up on the space.... there is always something you can do to improve it.
    My basement HT ,FWIW.
    http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/783.html
    Good Luck,
    Brian
     
  9. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    So your ceiling is a hanging grid work with pop in panels?

    Would this be correct?

    How big is the area above the false ceiling?

    If this is the type ceiling you have, everything above the ceiling panels is room space your trying to fill with bass also.

    Ouch....
     
  10. RichardH

    RichardH Supporting Actor

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    If you're considering an SVS, I would recommend the 25-31 variety since it will give you the most slam in the common bass frequencies.
     
  11. Robert_Gaither

    Robert_Gaither Screenwriter

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    I would rather ask why type of sub (brand) are you using? There are many brands that call themselves a sub but a few that actually perform like one.
     
  12. Mitch Stevens

    Mitch Stevens Supporting Actor

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    Geoff L
     
  13. Shawn Solar

    Shawn Solar Supporting Actor

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    Well your first room peak is at approx 35hz, the second is at 30hz. so you should have a huge peak about there. because the cieling is false and is not very thick you will have another peak at 70hz. if you divide 565/(room dimension) it gives you your axial room modes. Second order modes are double (in hz) of the first mode. Your room is also 2400ft^3 which is on the medium to large side. What was the size of room before?

    When you cut the effective volume the sub 'sees' in half, your rewarded with 2-3db more output and 2-3hz lower extension. But if the room doubles in size you lose. I suggest a parametric eq to tame the bass and if it is spl you miss a larger sub. I imagine the sub is in a corner?
     

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