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Help fix receiver/ Ideas for replacement (1 Viewer)

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Robert Borg
Hi I am having a problem with my current receiver that I have had for around 8+ years that I need help with. If I can’t fix it though I would like some ideas for a replacement as I understand the Tec specs but I am not so good with picking quality products.
I have noticed my surround channel is having problems. If let the system sit for say a day when I turn it back on the center and front channels work just fine at any volume. The surround speakers will not have any sound though at a low volumes, but if I jolt them awake by turning up the sound/gain they will start playing and will be able to still play when it is turned back down and it won’t be a problem again until the system sits for a day or so. I have noticed a cracking/static sound from the surrounds at low volume sometimes when they are not working like the signal is trying just so low it can’t drive the speaker. I re-striped the speaker wire, I replaced the wire and I used a known good wire with no affect. I have Bose 301 for all 4 speakers and I have tried to swap them out and around to no affect.
My system setup now is a VSX-1014TX-K in 5.1 mode with Bose 301 for front and surrounds a VCS-10 center with a sub.
A friend of mine said to just replace it and I may need to but I thought I would see if anyone else had an idea.

So for the second part of my post I would please ask for replacement suggestions like I said I can understand the Tec specs but beyond knowing I want a 24bit DAC I don’t know what else I am looking for. I primarily use the system for playing audio from my computer ie games, music ect from a digital fiber connection. My speakers are set up around my desk no more than 3-4 feet from me so bookshelf speakers are ideal but I can make floor standing work if I need to. I don’t have a gold ear I am not looking for super high fidelity at any cost just something that is reliable for many years and is good quality.
My friend gave me the site accessories4less.com to try and find a replacement but if I am going to get a new receiver I figured new speakers would be in order because everyone I meet says my Bose are crap lol. My friend said Marantz, Denon and Yamaha make good receivers so any suggestions would be welcome. As a side note for good or bad(probably bad) I come from car audio and like the overwhelming base feel and the vibrations so any solution that is lacking base is out, I know most of the base is from the sub but I don’t want the speakers to be lacking either. Also if anyone knows a powered sub that can equal or beat a 2 JL Audio 12w6’s I would be very interested.
 

schan1269

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301 aren't the worst speakers ever made. Everybody's main issue with Bose...They use a flat paper tweeter. Nobody else uses them on anything over a $20 pair of speakers. I've seen some mod diagrams of swapping in 1" domes. Enormous improvement, but took buying 40 pairs of tweeters to find one that cooperated with the DSP.On to the AVR...What features do you want?Networking?Bluetooth?HDMI upconversion? (Wii/VHS)Zone 2?Preouts?
 

ArmSC

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Ok sounds like the AVR has some failing rear channels. I think I would just look at an upgrade to the unit as it's probably time. So now you have to ask yourself some questions. What's your budget? What features are you looking in a new AVR? It sounds like anything would be fine for you as you're looking for optical in and a 5.1 output.

Replacing the speakers is your call. The 301's aren't a bad unit just overpriced. If you're happy with them then I would stay with them. Are you looking at replacing your sub too? I'm not quite sure how to interpret " better than 2 JL audio 12w6" as those are car subs. Are these the subs that you've used in a DIY sub that you currently have?
 

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Ok thanks sounds like I should just replace the AVR. I found some on accessories4less.com for around 300$ but they all look like the specs are the same at least the things I care about ie optical in, sub pre out, 5.1(7.1). I will use the AVR just to connect a digital signal to it from my computers sound card, that’s the only input I will be using or something similar. I will use it for gaming and music nothing else really.
The receivers I was looking at are all around 100w x 7 @ 8 ohms with .08 THD and a 24bit DAC. As long as they have a sub pre out and an optical input is there anything I should be looking for or are the all relatively the same for what I want?
As for speakers I was looking for some bookshelf and center channel speakers that can handle around 100W rms (the Bose can’t).
And yes I would like to replace my sub while I am at it and sorry most of my experience is in car audio and JL Audio is a car speaker manufacture. Maybe a better question would be you know the type that there car subs are so loud they compress your chest as they pass you, can you do that for home audio? And how much of a cost am I looking at to do that? Currently I have some BestBuy 150W 10’ sub that does not cut it at loud volumes.
 

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I got another question, I am used to buying the driver, box, amp all separate for car audio then putting them together and from what I am reading on this forum that maybe you can do that for home subs. Can someone give me a good site for parts and some good brands for drivers and amps and then I will just make my own sub setup that I like.
 

schan1269

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Maximum power is meaningless. Those 301 would handle 500 watts...if clean. Besides, if you "need to use" 100wpc...you must want to go deaf.You've probably never pushed more than 100 watts combined.Parts Express. How much are you willing to spend on your sub?
 

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Sam or anyone please explain what you mean by 'clean' power or post a link so I can read about it. My limited knowledge about speakers and amps would tell me if I paired a 500W rms amp with a 100W speaker it would destroy the speaker if i gave it any power.I think I am getting the relationship between the rated power for a channel on the amp and the speakers power handling confused. Let me explain what I think and then anyone please tell me how i am wrong so I can learn.I see it as if the amps power rating was say a volume control so a 100wpc is not as loud as a 300wpc, same for speakers a 100w can get louder then a 30w speaker.When you put them together you match power levels 100wpc amp with a 100w speaker ect and if you mismatch say amp more power then speaker it will overload the speaker and it will sound bad but loud or with a amp less power then the speaker it will not be as loud and once you max out the amp you will also get distortion because the amp is working too hard. I may be way off base but that's ware I am coming from please correct me if wrong I want to know how this really works.Also about "You've probably never pushed more than 100 watts combined" question, if the amp is 110wpc and is turned up as high as it will go set to 5.1 it is not pushing 550w? please explain.For a sub 300-500 for the driver, same for the amp. ~1000$ can go higher if a good dual sub/amp combo is available.

When i can my preferred way of listening to music is to turn it up until it starts to hurt my ears then back it off just a bit, good or bad, deaf or not that's how i like to listen, this is assuming the signal is not notably distorted or it starts to hurt my ears much sooner.

What i want in my office is something like what i had in my car(yes i know differences). 2 channels each with 100w rms speakers paired to a 100wpc rms amp, two 10" subs with 300w rms each and a matching 600w rms mono amp. Can i make my office 13x15 room sound like that?
I know home audio can produce a much cleaner sound but with what i had in my car i was impressed with the fidelity and how i could hear all the words and such so anything better then that is good but not something i need to throw $$ at to get. Now i can't get that level of clean loudness from my 301's at around -10 on my Pioneer they start to distort and any louder is just trash imo so i looked into new speakers KEF Q300 Q Series 6-1/2 inch look good but like i said looking at the specs i really cant tell if they are good or not but for the price they got to be able to handle more power ie be louder then my 301's but maybe its all to do with the amp and if so i am back to how can i tell if what i am looking at will produce cleaner signal then my Pioneer. I was looking and found this DENON AVR-2313CI but looking at the tec specs for the life of me i cant tell a real difference from that any my old Pioneer besides all the new connections and such that i don't care about.

If you read all that thanks and any help is welcome.
 

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I just thought of something in a car you have your Head unit ie a receiver and a top of the line unit will still sound like shit when you turn it up loud because well idk it just works like that maybe they cant fit a quality amp in the dash i guess or maybe is to hard to cool or something. But if you want quality sound in a car you take a preamp signal from the head unit and connect it to a amp then wire the speakers to the amp. I had assumed that with as freaking big as recivers are they would have a quality amp in them but maby its just like the head units in car audio and even the best receivers need a second amp to connect to so they can deliver a clean high power signal. If that's the case then i would need a new receiver and a amp so i can get the clean signal i need to run my speakers as loud as i like with no distortion. Let me know if this makes any sense and if i am on the right track, as well as brand names for good amps :)
 

schan1269

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Head units in the car use IC chips and the power is usually taken at 5-7% THD.Clean refers to anything less than .5% THD. Dedicated amps are often rated at .05% THD.Big differrence 5% to .05%.There is no AVR, at all, producing "what it says"x5....or x7. None...not a one. So that 110wpc, if you read the specs...is two channels driven. Not 5. Some bargain bin AVR even trumpet 1 channel driven at 1% THD at 1khz. And spout that x5 or x7. Pure and absolute bull shit.The only way to make an "educated guess" is when an AVR has it spec'd for how much juice it actually sucks off the wall. That 550 total watts would mean that AVR is sucking approximately 1200 watts off the wall.Case in point(not looking it up, going by memory) is the new Denon 5200. IF I remember right...it is listed 130wpc. It is 7 channel. So it says 910 watts. That 910 would require it to suck 2000 watts off the wall. It ony sucks 800.
 

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Ok thanks for the info good to know but that still leaves me in the same spot as before. I need to replace my VSX-1014TX-K and i have no way to know if the new AVR will be clean enough at a high output level. I don’t have a problem getting a dedicated amp as well if that’s what i need to get the clean power. The actual watts the AVR is producing i really don’t care about i just want to be able to go as loud as i like and not distort and if that requires a dedicated amp so be it but if there is some kind of tec spec or something i can look up about a AVR to know it can produce a cleaner signal then my VSX-1014TX-K i would like to know. What i can find on the net says my pioneer is rated at .09%THD is .07 or .08 that i have seen on other newer AVR that much of an improvement?
 

ArmSC

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It almost sounds like you want to set this up like a car audio system. Instead of an AVR you want a pre-pro going into individual amps or just one big stand alone amp.

How about something like this pre-pro ($600) with this 5 channel 300watt amp ($1000) or two of these 2 channel 150watt amps ($400ea) if you're only running a 4.1?
You could also try this 80 watt 5 channel amp ($350) but I don't know that it's going to be enough power for you.

Now you need bass...and lots of it. I'm thinking you try 2 BIC F12 ($200) and go from there. You'll need a Y cable coming out of the pre-pro but that's no big deal.

All of this is just a suggestion and I'm sure you can find other amps and pre-pros I just used this as a place to start. You keep the 301's for now and see how is sounds after the upgrade. I'm thinking with all the extra power and 2 12" subs in that size room you'll be happy.
 

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Tony thanks so much the preamp/surround processor is what i was looking for i did not know about them. Also the BIC F12 looks like a good prebuild cheaper sub that i can try and if it’s not the power i need i will just go with the BIY option. Your links are for a Emotiva brand, are they a trustworthy quality manufacture? Do you or anyone know some other brands that offer similar products so i can shop around and compare?
 

ArmSC

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Try these - Crown, McIntosh, Rotel, NAD, Outlaw, Integra these should give you some reading. Some have pre-pros and amps some just amps.

If the 2 BIC's aren't enough then get some JL audio subs and build your own box. Hook them up with an stereo amp from one of these manufacturers and I'm thinking you're in good shape. FYI I've heard good things about Emotiva in the past but you're playing above my pay grade. You might want to float over to the receiver/seperates/amps section as this is not beginner stuff you're dealing with.
 

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