head to head tourney: spielberg vs. godard/lewis (1 Viewer)

[george kaplan]

This tourney idea is prompted by Godard's interview where he basically called Spielberg a hack. I believe he refered to Steven's movies as "all fakery. It's false." I find this particularly bizarre considering Godard's own movies. The jump cuts in Breathless may have been groundbreaking and part of a new film grammar, but they were certainly not more realistic or truthful than other films, as a matter of fact they are quite gimmicky and 'fake' and 'false' in my opinion. And what's with the (complete lack of) special effects in Alphaville? This is a sci-fi film that takes place in the future and people still drive 1960s cars and live in cheap 1960s motel rooms? Oh yeah, that's not fake or false. I guess Godard would think a lot more of Spielberg if E.T. had shown up in a Ford Pinto instead of a spaceship. :rolleyes
Anyway, hence the idea for a tournament pitting these two against each other. But even though Godard has made a lot more films than Spielberg, I'm not sure how many people have seen a lot of them. I'll admit I've only seen a handful of them. And so I've decided to let Godard tag-team with one American he does have great respect for. In Godard's own words, this man is "a great director and a great character actor. Brillant". Yes, Godard is speaking of Jerry Lewis. A much better director than Steven Spielberg. Those Jerry Lewis movies are much less fake and false. :rolleyes
You can nominate up to 8 films by both Spielberg and Godard/Lewis (as either director or actor). I'm not sure if this tourney will have enough interest, but if so, I'll post the first bracket on Tuesday morning.

 

[Brook K]

I'll sit this one out. You obviously have absolutely no respect for Godard as an artist. The two men's goals in cinema are so completely different as to make any attempt to draw comparisons between the two ridiculous.

Rightly or wrongly, Godard is speaking about the artifice of ideas, theme, intent, he isn't speaking about the artifice of technique, he loves the artificiality of film and it's unique abilities to express and influence.

I'm posting a quote from a much more knowledgable Godard fan than I from a listserv I'm involved in:

He has taken on a larger topic - the cinema.
The thing that strikes me most about Godard is his unbelievable faith
in (and almost self-delusion created by) the cinema. His entire life
(past and present) is wrapped up in this art, and his current work
attempts to grapple with the medium as a whole, by comparing it to
the other arts, trying to make some sense of it. His entire life has
been lived through films (look at his marraiges!) and his twilight
is no different. Just a greater cynicism and wisdom.

Godard explains it best himself (in an interview in Liberation):
(talking about his own character)...

"It's a symbol. I am the representative of the image on Earth (laughing)!
I come from those times that were the supreme incarnation of images,
la Revue du cinema, the Cahiers, the Cinematheque, the New Wave,
cinephilia. The first generation that stood witness of the secrets of
the last generation of the pioneers. In the 50's and 60's, we were
still with those that had created cinema. We grew up with the idea
that you could see and know everything (through the cinema) since the
history of the cinema was shorter than the life of a man. I've spent
50 years in the cinema, half of the art's lifetime: that gives you an
amazing memory. There's no equivalent in the other arts. The secret
of images is lost, but the memory exists. There must be prophets and
martyrs to transmit this witness. In King Lear, I played one of these
prophets and martyrs, even if it had a little Indian side that I like,
the last of the Mohicans, or Spanish, Don Quixote. This memory of the
cinema is the refuge of those that still believe in it. This melancholy
kills me while also giving me new life."

George, lots of artists say stupid things, just like lots of football players, CEO's, and politicians. Why do you feel the need to start these polls just to validate your own view of cinema (no SfX in Alphaville is a criticism? C'mon George). What's next? John Hughes against Ingmar Bergman?

 

[Dome Vongvises]

I'm kind of interested to see how this tourney pans out. I've never seen a Godard movie, but his comments regarding Spielberg and some of the critiques on his films pretty much destroyed any of my interest in his films.

 

[Steeve Bergeron]

What's next? John Hughes against Ingmar Bergman?

Of course not! We all know that Ingmar Bergman is the God of Cinema. Who has a chance against him?

 

[george kaplan]

Brook,
I'll just say this. I have a hell of a lot more respect for Godard the artist, than Godard the critic.
I start these tourneys because I think they might be interesting or yield interesting comments. Just like it did with you. Hell I doubt if this tourney will get off the ground, but I already consider it a success just for that.
And for the record, I certainly don't do these tourneys to validate my own view of cinema. I'm quite secure in my views and don't need validation of them. And most of the time, my views aren't validated by them anyway. Hell, think about it Brook, if people who'd seen 8 Godard films voted in this tourney, we'd have a tourney mostly of Godard lovers, whereas Spielberg lovers would have to abstain and Godard would almost certainly win.
Aha. Something we agree upon completely. And what you miss was that I wasn't trying to compare them. I was simply pointing out how totally ridiculous it was of Godard to compare them! I wasn't trying to ridicule Godard's movies, I was trying to point out how disingenuous it was of Godard to ridicule Spielberg's movies (at least with the logic he used).
I don't think it makes a lot of sense to compare John Hughes with Bergman. But if Hughes said that Bergman's films sucked because they weren't serious enough, then that would open up Hughes critique to criticism.

 

[Jan H]

I agree with George's disdain for Godard the critic. As for his gifts as a filmmaker, YMMV, though he doesn't do a lot for me. But his comment that America has no culture angers me, especially considering how significantly the French New Wave was influenced by American movies. Godard is a bitter, hypocritical old crank.

 

[Andrew_Sch]

'Fraid I'll have to sit this one. Never seen any Godard, and don't plan to any time in the near future.

 

[Brian Kissinger]

I'm quite secure in my views and don't need validation of them.

I'm quite insecure, and if someone wanted to validate my views, that would be super.

 

[Steeve Bergeron]

Sure thing, Brian! Your taste in movies is excellent. Et voila!

 

[Brook K]

Godard is a bitter, hypocritical old crank.

No argument from me there. I certainly wasn't trying to defend his comments.

Thanks for the clarification George, sorry I jumped to the wrong conclusions.

For the record, I've seen 7 Godard films:
Breathless
A Woman Is A Woman (the only one I didn't think was excellent)
My Life To Live
Le Petit Soldat
Les Carabiniers
Alphaville
Pierrot Le Fou

 

[Brian Kissinger]

Sure thing, Brian! Your taste in movies is excellent. Et voila!

-Steeve



I have finally arrived.

 

[Lew Crippen]

I know nothing about Godard as a critic and I’ve only seen a eight of his films that had any distribution (and a handful such as See you at Mao that almost no one has seen or now has a chance to see).

Breathless
A Woman is a Woman
The Soldiers
Contempt
Alphaville
Passion
For Ever Mozart
In Praise of Love

Ten Minutes Older than the Cello (also directed by Bertolucci, et. al.) is next on my list, but I may have missed it while moving, and its not the kind of film to be immediately released on DVD.

So, I’d probably have to pass on most rounds, but if this gets off the ground, I’ll play.

Never seen any Godard, and don't plan to any time in the near future.

Never say never Andrew. Regardless of the opinion you might hold (or form) of his films, or what any individual critic or moviegoer might think, even Godard’s harshest critics would concede that he was one of the major influences on filmmakers during the last 40 or 50 years. The list of artists who have lined up to work with him is staggering. While some might snigger about his views on Jerry Lewis, it is not so easy to dismiss Woody Allen, Norman Mailer, Bernardo Bertolucci and François Traffaut.

To cite only one small example of the depth of his influence, Godard, along with Traffaut, was one of the prime innovators that comprised the French ‘New Wave’. Anne Coates, who edited [Lawrence of Arabia (and I think, won an Oscar for that film—Rob will correct me if I’m wrong) cited the ‘New Wave’ as one of the major influences of her work on that film. In particular she mentions the cut where Lawrence blows out the match and, we go right to the sunrise.

Form your own opinions, but don’t dismiss him out-of-hand.

You can take the above eight as nominations, George. The others that I’ve seen would have small chance of making it past the opening round.

For Spielberg, I’ll put up:

Jaws
The Sugerland Express
Raiders of the Lost Ark
The Color Purple
Empire of the Sun
Schindler’s List
A.I.
Close Encounters of the Third Kind

For the record, I think Godard a brilliant filmmaker, though I’d add ‘angry, idealistic, Marxist’, to Jan’s comments. His comments on American culture don’t bother me all that much and certainly would not keep me from seeing his films.

 

[george kaplan]

Well let's call this attempt to do a tournament a little out of the ordinary a failed experiment. I guess it's time to do something more conventional. Coming very soon.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

Never say never Andrew. Regardless of the opinion you might hold (or form) of his films, or what any individual critic or moviegoer might think, even Godard’s harshest critics would concede that he was one of the major influences on filmmakers during the last 40 or 50 years. The list of artists who have lined up to work with him is staggering. While some might snigger about his views on Jerry Lewis, it is not so easy to dismiss Woody Allen, Norman Mailer, Bernardo Bertolucci and François Traffaut.

Everything I've read about Godard seems like he's the kind of guy that makes films I hate. However, I can't say the same for Woody Allen, Norman Mailer, Bernardo Bertolucci and Francois Traffaut. So I'm still not convinced why I should also seek out Godard, rather than be content to view his contemporaries and those folks he influenced.

Yeah, I'm basically sharing Andrew's point-of-view.

 

[Andrew_Sch]

It's not that I'm anti-Godard or refuse to see his films for any reason, it's just that he's not on my "movies to see" radar and it's unlikely that he will be in the forseeable future.

 

[george kaplan]

I'm not a huge Godard fan by any stretch of the imagination, but I do think that any movie buff needs to have a least a couple of his films on the to-rent list, even if it's pretty far down. Of course, I think there are far more important films, and I have no idea what other holes other people have, but I'd say that seeing at least Breathless and perhaps Alphaville are certainly important.