HDTV PART II: Need a little help with HD programming

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Ryan Leemhuis, Jun 11, 2005.

  1. Ryan Leemhuis

    Ryan Leemhuis Second Unit

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    Ok those of you who caught my last thread, I appreciate it. The TV's at work are now displaying DISCOVERY HD and the HD receivers are outputting in 1080i.

    Just a few questions I have to get cleared up so I can answer questions about HD programming.

    1. Why do the EDTV plasmas look so good(detail wise) if they only are capable of 480 lines of resolution? You would think the difference would be night and day. Is it just a very good down-conversion from 1080i?

    2. For an HD monitor, does the HD receiver that comes with HD service from dish network work as the set top box needed? I am a bit confused why you would need the HD receiver in the TV.

    3. Can you get any HD channels over the air? As in no cable service or dish. I just need the basics of ways to get HD programming

    Thanks for all your guys' help. I just have never really been interested in HD programming because its beyond my reach right now, but I want to know what I am talking about when I need to tell customers what they need. Thanks!
     
  2. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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    Your previous thread was borderline between programming and hardware issues. This one appears to concern the latter; so I'm moving it to the Display area.

    M.
     
  3. Holadem

    Holadem Lead Actor

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    3. Yes.

    --
    H
     
  4. Ryan Leemhuis

    Ryan Leemhuis Second Unit

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    alright, so I would just gain another channel if I had a HDTV antenna?
     
  5. Evan M

    Evan M Second Unit

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    well, you still have to have an HD Tuner and an Antenna capable of picking up the HD signal. There are lots of models of TV that have the tuner built in, but you probably pay more for it that way? Anyways, as far as #2 goes, for the Satellite stations, definitely... for the OTA stations (IE: Local channels in HD) it will depend on the model of Satelite reciever, but I believe most of them have inputs for Antenna so you can use it as a receiver for your OTA stations. The built in receiver is primarily for those who want to get HD stations without Satelite service, or for greatest future compatibility. Personally,I recommend against getting a built in tuner, and would lean toward just purchasing a separate HD receiver (You can get them for about 100 bucks)

    What type of Antenna depends on location relative to the stations tower.
     
  6. Mike Slade

    Mike Slade Second Unit

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    For over the air HD you can go to www.antennaweb.org to find out what's available in your area.
     
  7. John S

    John S Producer

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    1. Keep in mind 480p is more or less the same as 960i, so not near as far from 1080i / 540p as many would like to believe. But Color tracking/decoding and grey scale accuracy have just as much if not more to do with the PQ than raw resolution.

    2. Little bit of a grey area, but having a built in tuner is never a bad thing. Most that have internal tuners, still use external tuners anyways.

    3. I get lots of free HD Over the Air here in the Denver Metro area. You should research for your particular area.
     
  8. Charlie Campisi

    Charlie Campisi Screenwriter

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    Another advantage of having the built in tuner is that you can use it for PIP.
     
  9. Ryan Leemhuis

    Ryan Leemhuis Second Unit

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    Ok, I got a question that I wasn't able to answer today. If they buy a HDTV(no monitor) do you need the HDTV receiver from Dish Network? Is this only necessary if its a monitor?

    Thanks for all your help, I am definitely the customers fav [​IMG]. I don't dance my way around questions [​IMG]
     
  10. PeterTHX

    PeterTHX Cinematographer

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    DO NOT BUY AN EDTV! [​IMG]

    EDTV can't even properly reproduce DVD's full resolution & color spectrum. If you watch a well transferred DVD on a properly calibrated HD and ED monitor the differences will be obvious.

    TRUE, direct HiDef feeds will have a very big difference.

    Don't buy a Porsche with a VW engine. [​IMG]
     
  11. Ryan Leemhuis

    Ryan Leemhuis Second Unit

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    ok, I will definitely make that known to customers althought I already don't suggest the plasma ED's unless budget+wall mounting is huge.

    But what about the monitor question?

    Thanks for all your help
     
  12. John S

    John S Producer

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    There are those of us, that do not agree with PeterTHX's assessment of ED.....

    480p is not that far at all from, 1080i.....

    I just can't hardly believe anybody could be that opposed to ED displays. But we all have our opinions.


    Keep in mind, a quality ED display will slay a low end HD display on PQ hands down every time.

    If they want HD from direct TV, they need the external box. At best to my knowledge you can only get Cable HD and OTA HD from internal to the display tuners.
     
  13. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    John, I've heard you say this before, but I really don't understand why you think it is so. While it is true that 480p draws almost as many lines in the same time as 1080i (480 vs. 540), the actual resolution of the 480p is much less than 1080i, regardless of the refresh rate or scheme. 480p can still only resolve 480 lines of vertical resolution, no matter how fast they are refreshed. The 1080i screen, although it only refreshes every other line, can resolve more than twice the resolution as a comparable 480p display. Combine that with the greater horizontal resolution and the 1080i has ~4 times the sharpness as a 480p display, regardless of the refresh scheme.

    Although I agree with you that some 480p plasmas are almost as good as HDTV at fairly long distances, the fact is that 1080i has much better resolution than 480p and the differences are quite visible as you get closer and closer to the screen.
     
  14. John S

    John S Producer

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    I should clarify....
    This is from blind tests at viewing distance....


    I used to feel very different on it, till I participated in the blind tests at viewing distance.

    That is why I state what I state on this. I want to make sure that readers that come across these threads where PeterTHX is so against ED displays, know that there are definetly opposite opinions on them.

    By your own statement, you would also think that 720p is vastly inferior to 1080i as well.... No? And yet many feel 720p is vastly superior to 1080i. I mean still only 720 lines of resolution right?
     
  15. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    I view my 56" HDTV at 7 feet and see no lines of resolution in HDTV broadcasts (in fact I could get closer). I sincerely doubt a 56" ED plasma could display the same clarity at 7 ft or less. I agree that at certain longer distances the two look very similar, but some of us like a large field of view and ED just does not cut it for these people. YMMV.
     
  16. John S

    John S Producer

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    Standard 2x distance is what was used for the tests...

    Be mindfull this is only on the output side. The source seems to matter even more. 1080i source looks better than 480p (480i de-interleced) even on an ED display.

    I still stand by what I assert about ED....

    You used plasma as an example.. But lets talk about an Infocus 4805.... Not as clear cut as many believe, I stand by the statement 100%... [​IMG]


    So once again, it is good people get to read different opinions on these things.... He got the Ban ED crowd, we got the ED thumbs up crowd, and we have everything in between.

    I have to admit, the Infocus 4805 changed a fair amount of my opinions on ED and DLP. I was pretty darn against them when I purchased my display... 60" CRT RPTV by the way.

    But I have to admit, sending my display 480p, from HD STB is still way impressive on PQ, my closest seating is a little over 9' though. My display doesn't really scale though.. No 720p support at all.
     
  17. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    That's the standard for ED, the recommended for HD is usually 1.5x. Of course they are going to look similar if you use the recommended distance for the less capable display. I would rather have the greater field of view available from the true HD than have a smaller field of view that SD offers. A true comparison of "SD being close to HD quality" is to test them both at HD distances.
     
  18. John S

    John S Producer

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    SD aye????? I give up....
    As said, the source matters even more....

    I still say the jump from 480i SD to 480p ED is actually bigger than the jump from 480p to 1080i or 720p. Al lmath aside, we are talking about PQ here.

    It is an opinion.... You welcome to have yours as well.
     
  19. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

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    Sorry, I meant ED instead of SD (they are so close, I get them mixed up). We'll just agree to disagree. I prefer a closer viewing distance, that's all I was trying to say.
     
  20. Ryan Leemhuis

    Ryan Leemhuis Second Unit

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    so....which one should have better PQ 1080i or 720p??

    Anyone have a answer to the HD receiver question I asked previously?
     

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