HDTV Copy Protection - Dvorak Article

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Colin Davidson, Apr 16, 2002.

  1. Colin Davidson

    Colin Davidson Second Unit
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    While I haven't frequented this area as much as I probably should, I found an interesting section in John Dvorak's "Inside Track" in the April 23rd PC Magazine.
    The article is here:
    Dvorak Article
    And the pertinent part of the article is:
    While on the Subject of HDTV Dept.:
    While this information is perhaps "old news" to many, it quite frankly opened my eyes to a very real problem if this is true.
    Perhaps it is time once again to awaken the sleeping giant that is the HTF and start lobbying against this.
    Regards,
    Colin
     
  2. SteveA

    SteveA Supporting Actor

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  3. Mike I

    Mike I Supporting Actor

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    This guy is notorious for being anti HDTV and his views are always slanted that way...You should have read some of things he said during the 8vsb/COFDM debates 3 years ago..
     
  4. Roy H

    Roy H Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for posting this thread Colin. It may not be great news for the current HDTV owners, and I can understand being pi$$ed about this. I sure would be furious if I took the HDTV leap already. But I think people have the right to know what is going on (THE TRUTH) and what very well could become a reality before they spend a large sum of money. My honest opinion is that this whole issue $uck$ and people should not be taken to the cleaners this way. I held off on the HDTV market and did not put much stock in it, and I as an analog user would still back the people who did invest in the HDTV market. This whole thing may or may not happen, but with the (POWERS THAT BE) insisting they have the control, I will be KEEPING my HDTV money in my bank account until this is all resolved!!!!!!!!

    Roy.
     
  5. Mike I

    Mike I Supporting Actor

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    Just like other anti HDTV critics, the author has only presented part of the story, leaving out important parts to support his anti HDTV position..He too probably spent a much of money on outdated analog technology and does not want to come to terms with it..

    DVI or firewire if and when it ever comes about will never effect broadcast tv....Basically if it ever occurs, it will be premium PPV movies that could be effected...Hollywood is far more concerned with a Napster situation with PC's than a few people recording a HD movie at home....
     
  6. SteveA

    SteveA Supporting Actor

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  7. Mike I

    Mike I Supporting Actor

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    From Mark Cuban

     
  8. Colin Davidson

    Colin Davidson Second Unit
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  9. RyanDinan

    RyanDinan Stunt Coordinator

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    Okay guys, this article seems to be talking about HDCP/DVI - Which DOES NOT render current HDTV's obsolete.
    I admit, was once confused over this issue as well until someone straightened me out on the facts. People are barking up the wrong tree so to speak.
    HDCP/DVI is for a DVI connection only. If you don't have a DVI/HDCP port on your set, you can't (and don't need to) use it obviously. But this does NOT mean that you can't have HD analog outputs from such devices - Which by the way will be D-VHS and HD-DVD players. HDCP/DVI is for UNCOMPRESSED HD source only - Which obviously will not include OTA, cable/satellite - Which deal with COMPRESSED streams. These devices will not have a HDCP/DVI output.
    What current HDTV owners SHOULD worry about is DTCP, not HDCP/DVI. HDCP is simply a means to secure a DIGITAL PATH from the SOURCE DEVICE to the DISPLAY DEVICE. DTCP is the thing that has provisions for IMAGE-CONSTRAINT over ANALOG OUTPUTS.
    Now, not all material will employ image-constraint - That's up to the content owner (A.K.A, the Studio's).
    Since the MPAA knows that image-constraint won't fly for long, if at all, a new digital watermark is supposed to be used instead, which will prevent unauthorized coppying - Similar to what MacroVision is to DVD (although more secure).
    So there's a very good chance (if the watermarking technique is used) that all current HDTV owners will get all their HDTV at full resolution.
    Now, I don't settle for "a very good chance" - So we should keep pressing on the issue of getting rid of image-constraint under DTCP, and the adoption of watermarking.
    -Ryan Dinan
     
  10. Brad_V

    Brad_V Second Unit

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    Just like other anti HDTV critics, the author has only presented part of the story, leaving out important parts to support his anti HDTV position..He too probably spent a much of money on outdated analog technology and does not want to come to terms with it..

    ---------------

    "A bunch of money" is spending an extra $500+ on a 27" HD-ready TV that won't even get HD until more hundreds are spent on it. Every HDTV is around $500 more than a comparable analog version, and all you get at the time for your money is 480p instead of 480i. Not everyone thinks that is money well-spent. Buying an analog 27" is not a bunch of money. Buying an HD 27" is. (relatively speaking.)

    Whether people predict the future differently or not, it's good to see Mr. Dvorak at least saying *something* about the copy protection issue. If any of us here went into a local home theater store, I bet many if not most of them wouldn't even have heard of the copy protection issue. People here know about this stuff and can make their better-informed decision from that, but most consumers out there have no idea it could happen (no matter how small a chance someone may think there might be).

    I've actually seen people on another forum say the copy protection issue shouldn't be discussed *at all* because it might scare away people from buying HDTVs at this time, and since they already have an HDTV they might receive less future HD programming than possible due to there being a smaller number of early adopters. Man, talk about looking out for #1.

    If people are kept from making a more-informed decision and it happens, I'd like to see the people who kept that information from them look them square in the eye and tell them they knew all along the down-rezzing might happen but didn't say anything.

    Dvorak may have written a bit... loudly, but it's hard to blame him since few others seem to be taking the matter seriously. He deserves credit for at least saying *something* to bring the matter to people's attention. After all, not everyone is wise enough to read HomeTheaterForum.com.
     
  11. Allan Jayne

    Allan Jayne Cinematographer

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    There is still the threat of withholding HDTV from analog TV sets. There are numerous ways of doing this, all loosely described as "watering down the signal". One standard that has surfaced is no more than 960 x 540 resolution out of 1920 x 1080. This might be accomplished by duplicating every other video field and low pass filtering the video signal. Technically it is still 1080i, 720p can also be watered down and still be 720p.
    Whether the video is watered down to suit Hollywood's demands or to allow the station to make money on the side carrying cell phone calls, or as a result of upconverting an NTSC source instead of televising in HDTV, the result is the same, less HDTV that you can tune in and watch.
    Video hints:
    http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/video.htm
    It may be noted that lots of people will be watching in SDTV even if HDTV was not watered down. If no HDTV VCRs were sold, people will continue using their present VCRs recording from the composite jack of the HDTV set top box and it plays back at something like 480 high by 300 across.
     

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