HDTV Compatibility or Upconvert Vs. Component Switching

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Jeb, Nov 4, 2002.

  1. Jeb

    Jeb Extra

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    My head is spinning here. I thought I finally figured out that if I was able to get a receiver that has component switching (ie Denon AVR 2802) that my hdtv receiver could run through it without any signal degredation. However, tonight at Audio King I was told that receivers need Upconvert to do this, otherwise the signal will only be of S-video quality. And upconversion supposedly only comes with Flagship recievers or near flagship (2500+).
    Could anyone who has experience with this please point me in the right direction?
    If you could go one step beyond and recommend an A/V receiver that is under 1k and doesn't degrade the picture that would be great. I'm to to such a point of frustration here that I would pay for this information.
    Thanks,
    Jeb
    (also, running the cable straight from the hdtv receiver to the monitor is not a possibility since i'm using a projector with only one component video input)
     
  2. Steve Winkler

    Steve Winkler Stunt Coordinator

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    Jeb, if I'm reading your post correctly, you're looking for a receiver that will pass a HDTV signal without any signal degradation right?? I'm not sure what your dealer is talking about[​IMG] , as far as I know, there are many units that do this now. The Denon 2802 however, does not I believe. Yamaha 1300,2300,3300 series do, Sony DA4ES & DA7Es do, Marantz 7300 does, etc, etc. The receiver just has to have the correct specs for component video bandwidth.
    50 or 60 MHz is what's needed for HDTV pass-through.
    I hope this helps.
    Cheers.
     
  3. Brian Ruth

    Brian Ruth Supporting Actor

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    What is the difference between a 27 MHz switcher and a 60 MHz?

    What performance difference is there between the 2?
     
  4. Han

    Han Second Unit

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    I think your "MHz number" only needs to be in the 30s for the switching to be passed without degradation (theoretically).

    I think Jeb's dealer may be a little whack in his explanation. You've got two situations here: video switching (and how it relates to signal degradation), and video upconversion.

    With switching, what you send in goes out the same if there's enough bandwidth in the switcher (in this case a receiver). For example, three composite sources in come out through one composite output. Three S-Video in, one S-Video out. Two component in, one component out.

    With "upconversion", I know Kenwood and Denon have receivers that do this in the higher end models. It's more convenient than plain switching, because you can input a bunch of composite, s-video, and component video signals, and they all come out through the component out. There's no magic whereby the lower quality signals get better, but the convenience is very nice, and I'd like to see it in more products.
     
  5. Jeb

    Jeb Extra

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    Thanks for the info. Anybody happen to know if the 45tx has upconversion? And since it has 100mhz bandwidth that should be fine right? Am I correct in saying the higher the bandwidth the better?
    -jeb
     
  6. Andrew Pierce

    Andrew Pierce Stunt Coordinator

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    I know there are several receivers which upconvert composite to s-video, but are there actually receivers which convert composite and/or svideo to component?
     
  7. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

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    The November issue of Sound & Vision magazine has a nice chart listing features for most receivers.

    The Dennon 2802 does NOT have a check saying it is HD switching compatible.

    The nearest Dennon is the 3803 that is HD compatible.

    You should run out and get this magazine.

    In the about $800 range, there is:

    Yamaha RX-V1300 $800
    Yamaha RX-V1200 $800
    Yamaha RX-V730 $600
    Yamaha RX-V630 $500

    Note: it does NOT take a lot of electronics to correctly pass the HD video signal. It simply means the pathways inside the receiver have been designed for the higher-frequency signals. This usually does not add to the price.

    Yamaha went through a major model change last year and made almost all their current receivers HD compatible. Dennon's newer units have been modified, but the older ones that came out over 2 years ago have not.

    There are also lots of Sony, Harmon Kardon, JVC, Kenwood, Marantz units that are HD compatible. I highly recommend you get the Sound & Vision magazine and look through it.
     
  8. Roger Li

    Roger Li Extra

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    The Denon 3803 (which should be available soon) does both 100Mhz component switching (2-in, 1-out), and will upconvert composite and s-video to component. The MSRP is $1200, but you may be able to find it for about $1000.
     
  9. DanielSmi

    DanielSmi Second Unit

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    Actually Han is right you only need around 35MHz bandwidth to pass HDTV without degradation.

    Jeb,

    The 45TX doesn't have 100MHz bandwidth, it has the same bandwidth as all the other Elite models over the past few years and that is 40MHz. Which is more than enough to pass HDTV, according to THX ULTRA2 specs.

    The 100MHz bandwidth is just hype. Since no hdtv signal goes anywhere near that high, it unnecessary bandwidth. For example music's highest freq WAS say 35kHz then there would be no need to have speakers that went to 100kHz. Even if there was a signal that high it wouldn't be powerful enough to move the tweeter without serious amplification, but that's a different story.

    Daniel Smith
     
  10. PeterSCohen

    PeterSCohen Auditioning

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    I don't believe the Yamaha 1300 will "upconvert" a signal. I was trying that exact thing with mine a few weeks ago after I just got it. Couldn't get any signal thru to the s-video output. Called Yamaha t.s. and was told it doesn't do that.

    Peter
     
  11. Gabriel_Lam

    Gabriel_Lam Screenwriter

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    There are very few receivers that will upconvert composite and s-video to component. Here are the few I know of:

    Denon AVR3803
    Denon AVR5083

    Pioneer Elite VSX-49TX
    Pioneer Elite VSX-49TXi

    Kenwood Sovereign VR-5900
    Kenwood Sovereign VR-5700
    Kenwood Sovereign VR-5090
     
  12. Andrew Pierce

    Andrew Pierce Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks!
     
  13. Greg_R

    Greg_R Screenwriter

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    Another thing to mention is that you may not even see the difference on your display (between 35Mhz and say 20Mhz switching bandwidths). The large majority of HD ready RPTVs can't fully resolve the HD signal anyway (so a little loss in the transmission won't be noticed). Bring a unit home to try and see for yourself if there is a difference...
     
  14. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

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